jimbaxters Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 7 hours ago, Burnieman said: I have to agree that the rules should change to highest placed licenced club within the top 3 positions. So for example Beith win the league, it goes to second, and then third to find a licenced club for the play-off. If there are none, then no play-off participant. Should have been that from day one really to remove "blockers" from the equation. It can't be any more unfair than a club finding themselves in the fortunate position of auto promotion to the LL due to no licenced Champion in the other two leagues and therefore no play-off at all. A fortune of circumstance/timing. You'd hope that eventually the rule would become redundant anyway as more clubs become licenced. 16 minutes ago, Shanner said: in what way does this actually undermine anything? whst are you saying is devalued? Nobody's saying they should face a random team - it's the highest-placed team satisfying all the criteria for promotion. Giving the East teams a free hit at promotion against an SOS side as we currently do is a bit farcical in itself as they're benefiting from the WOS winners lack of a bit of paper as you put it. There's nothing fortunate or free hit like about winning your league and getting promoted. You almost sound like you're happy with a play off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 12 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: 1v1v1 1v2v2 1v9 1v1 1v5 It's not a free hit for any team. Teams play out an entire season and you want to boil it down to what amounts to a one-off game with a random draw on home field advantage. How about focusing on greater promotion to the Lowland League instead of re-arranging deck chairs. saying random repeatedly does not make it so. You're also predicating your argument on me being a fan of the current playoff and promotion set ups; I'm not, and those are a separate issue to this. If my team won the league in the WOS I'd very much regard it as a cracking stroke of luck if they were allowed to bypass the minefield of a game against a decent quality EOS opponent (in any format). I say luck, but it would actually be tinged with a bit of professional embarrassment at having dodged a bullet that other teams before didn't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 11 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: There's nothing fortunate or free hit like about winning your league and getting promoted. You almost sound like you're happy with a play off. everyone and their dug favours straight promotion, that's a given I'd have thought. I'm pointing out that the current imperfect system would be improved by letting the highest licensed sides in all divisions enter the LL playoff pot rather than sending our apologies from the WOS because our champions don't have their shit together enough to get a license again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 51 minutes ago, Shanner said: Giving the East teams a free hit at promotion against an SOS side as we currently do is a bit farcical in itself Come on mate, I've been nice to the WOS recently, Dalbeattie or Creetown might give Broxie the Bear a game, maybe. All Tier 6's tolgether as one. Crossed my mind to 'red dot' you, but we've discussed that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 26 minutes ago, Shanner said: saying random repeatedly does not make it so. You're also predicating your argument on me being a fan of the current playoff and promotion set ups; I'm not, and those are a separate issue to this. If my team won the league in the WOS I'd very much regard it as a cracking stroke of luck if they were allowed to bypass the minefield of a game against a decent quality EOS opponent (in any format). I say luck, but it would actually be tinged with a bit of professional embarrassment at having dodged a bullet that other teams before didn't. I'm saying "random draw" there because that's how the 3-way Play-off is conducted to determine the home field advantage and order of the ties. And you're the one complaining about a team getting a free hit at promotion, while advocating for team(s) getting a free hit at promotion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 9 hours ago, theesel1994 said: They have already considered it and rejected it before even getting to a vote. I feel all Tier 6 leagues need to be careful with regards to licensing. My thoughts are that there will always be clubs who are not likely to be challengers for the title but are good top league clubs; with al respect could your own club be considered such a club, do they need or are capable of obtaining a license. There are always clubs who will get promoted to the Prem, who will struggle and get relegated never to return. Then we have the clubs who yo-yo between the top 2 Divisions. Not quite strong enough to sustain top level existence but good enough to gain pro.orion from lower league. Now it should be up to each club in anybof these positions to decide for themselves whether licensing is for them in the long term. Yes, there could be a rule put in place that says a club must obtain a license within a set time frame, but it needs to be flexible. The scenario is there that you could end up with the same 16 clubs in the Prem year in year out. Not down to footballing ability but because they hold a 'piece of paper'. This scenario is not a fluid pyramid. There may be a time down the road when Tier 6 Leagues are fully licensed, but let's walk or even crawl before we can run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said: How about focusing on greater promotion to the Lowland League instead of re-arranging deck chairs. Isn't that what we all want, apart from the LL? That door is locked and the LL clubs have the only key. This is the problem when you have an almost autonomous league slap bang in the middle of the pyramid. Who are they answerable to in terms of their rules and regulations? As we witness in other industries self-governance doesn't work for anyone's benefit. It is creating a bottleneck, just like the Club 42 rule, but hopefully not forever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 4 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said: It is creating a bottleneck, just like the Club 42 rule, but hopefully not forever. What eligible and qualifying clubs - under the existing rules - are being held back? There's no demonstrable 'bottleneck' in the EoS. Every obvious candidate to move up has easily done so already; with plenty of less obvious candidates now with a chance of doing so as well in the near future. There's no demonstrable 'bottleneck' in the SoS. Dalbeattie were flushed out of the LL on merit and have been down for one season only. And with the best will in the world to these clubs, previous candidates like St Cuthbert's/Creetown are not exactly being cruelly denied their obvious place competing at a much higher level. Which leaves us with the West of Scotland. A league that has failed to produced a licensed winner to compete in most years; and when it did, its entrant fared as well as English clubs did in the Champions' League this season (hubris -> bottle-job -> dismal exit). It's really not an issue for the pyramid structure as a whole then: it's a WoS issue only. That might well change in the future but at the moment there is no such bottleneck. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 (edited) 35 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: I'm saying "random draw" there because that's how the 3-way Play-off is conducted to determine the home field advantage and order of the ties. And you're the one complaining about a team getting a free hit at promotion, while advocating for team(s) getting a free hit at promotion. You also said "random team" in a post before that. As for your second paragraph - no I'm not and I'm not sure how you've arrived at that conclusion. Edited April 18 by Shanner 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 33 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: I'm saying "random draw" there because that's how the 3-way Play-off is conducted to determine the home field advantage and order of the ties. And you're the one complaining about a team getting a free hit at promotion, while advocating for team(s) getting a free hit at promotion. 1 hour ago, Shanner said: saying random repeatedly does not make it so. You're also predicating your argument on me being a fan of the current playoff and promotion set ups; I'm not, and those are a separate issue to this. If my team won the league in the WOS I'd very much regard it as a cracking stroke of luck if they were allowed to bypass the minefield of a game against a decent quality EOS opponent (in any format). I say luck, but it would actually be tinged with a bit of professional embarrassment at having dodged a bullet that other teams before didn't. He's right mate. You can't talk about professional embarrassment then advocate finishing 2nd in your league yet going up just because you have the right boxes ticked or more resources than the club who finishes ahead of you. I, for one am against this notion of promoting the highest placed licensed club! Or as it should more commonly be known, the "Make sure Clydebank get up even though they're not good enough" rule 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 38 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: He's right mate. You can't talk about professional embarrassment then advocate finishing 2nd in your league yet going up just because you have the right boxes ticked or more resources than the club who finishes ahead of you. I, for one am against this notion of promoting the highest placed licensed club! Or as it should more commonly be known, the "Make sure Clydebank get up even though they're not good enough" rule Why are you mentioning Clydebank? If Beith for example are working towards their licence but because of circumstances it's going to take a few years to sort the issues. In that time they win the league because they are a good team. They could potentially "block" access to the play-off for a number of years whilst navigating the licence process (which isn't open at the moment either). Replace Beith with, for example, St.Cadocs or Gartcairn. It's not a radical concept to then go to the next eligible club to take part, it happens elsewhere. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 55 minutes ago, virginton said: Which leaves us with the West of Scotland. A league that has failed to produced a licensed winner to compete in most years...... Only once so far. It may happen again this year, time will tell. This is only the third full season of the WoSFL's existence. You make it sound like this is a recurring issue over decades. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, An Absolute Imposter said: Who are they answerable to in terms of their rules and regulations The SFA - exactly the same as the West, South and East Leagues 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzler Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 can't stand when a good thread gets entangled in the same nonsense every couple months. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, An Absolute Imposter said: Come on mate, I've been nice to the WOS recently, Dalbeattie or Creetown might give Broxie the Bear a game, maybe. All Tier 6's tolgether as one. Crossed my mind to 'red dot' you, but we've discussed that. Broxie the Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, jimbaxters said: He's right mate. You can't talk about professional embarrassment then advocate finishing 2nd in your league yet going up just because you have the right boxes ticked or more resources than the club who finishes ahead of you. I, for one am against this notion of promoting the highest placed licensed club! Or as it should more commonly be known, the "Make sure Clydebank get up even though they're not good enough" rule I don't think Clydebank have ever been the highest placed team with a licence. Talbot would have had the pleasure! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 12 minutes ago, bobbydazzler said: can't stand when a good thread gets entangled in the same nonsense every couple months. I actually thought it this was the thirty page Junior Takeover bonfire thread. You're right about not infecting innocent threads with pyramid pish tbh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 26 minutes ago, bobbydazzler said: can't stand when a good thread gets entangled in the same nonsense every couple months. A Premier Division thread talking about the Premier Division promotion set-up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, Burnieman said: Why are you mentioning Clydebank? If Beith for example are working towards their licence but because of circumstances it's going to take a few years to sort the issues. In that time they win the league because they are a good team. They could potentially "block" access to the play-off for a number of years whilst navigating the licence process (which isn't open at the moment either). Replace Beith with, for example, St.Cadocs or Gartcairn. It's not a radical concept to then go to the next eligible club to take part, it happens elsewhere. In the name of fun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 43 minutes ago, Shanner said: I actually thought it this was the thirty page Junior Takeover bonfire thread. You're right about not infecting innocent threads with pyramid pish tbh. Oh, so did I. Anyway, Beith look like winning the Premier Division. They should do well in the play-off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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