WoSFL Premier Division thread

[pheasant plucker]

4 hours ago, razamanaz said:

Who is going to represent the WoSL in the play-offs - will it be the next licenced team?

East winner will go through without playing anyone & have all those potentially mouthwatering games to look forward to in front of big crowds

Edited April 11, 2023 by pheasant plucker

[Ginaro]

Not really sure what the issue is here...

Beith will win the league and once again play in the Scottish Cup, likely make a bit of money from that and want to play in it every season so will no doubt focus on licensing requirements. Though of course you've got to balance on and off field spending.

Linlithgow will pump Creetown or just go up automatically if no one is licensed from the SOS. They get to play Bo'ness again, the LL improves its quality/crowds, and it increases the likelihood of the LL voting for more promotion/relegation. 

The WOS keeps all of its teams and rivalries for another year, the early midweek fixtures get sorted, the Third Division goes back to 16 and teams find their level.

2 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

1. A straight LL2 with a mixture of licenced and non-licenced clubs but all committed and actively going for their licence.

2. A LL West and LL East which will be  staging post for clubs progressing toward a licence.

Well done, you've basically just described the current setup with the EOS and WOS.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Ginaro

[Johnny Sox]

1 hour ago, razamanaz said:

Re Falkirk when they played at Brockville - won the league but couldn't go up because the ground didn't come up to Premier League standards. Eventually tried to get their house in order but it has been a struggle ever since.

Who is going to represent the WoSL in the play-offs - will it be the next licenced team?

Nobody.

[Lokloyal]

2 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

I know exactly what is required to be licensed and I know it is more than the ground, but the ground is the 1 thing that costs the most money. The other stuff like courses do have a monetary cost but also time, but these are still more affordable than putting in place floodlights etc. The Bankies have done a phenomenal job of improving Holm Park and rightly deserve praise, but without the floodlights paid for by the council,  could they have afforded to get their license as quick? I agree about what the LA did but other LA's are different and have different priorities. Its great WDC are onside with helping Clydebank/Yoker but others are not and have actively been against clubs in their areas at certain points. Even locals can be against the club!!

I am not saying that clubs shouldn't be working towards it, they should, but to say after 2 years of this being up and running we need to change and relegate clubs (which is what a LL2 or LL East/West would do) is unfair. If it were in year 5, I would certainly think differently but to expect it to be sort be now, imo, is not realistic.

Beith are not winning the league because they have outspent every other team while letting their ground go to ruin, they have won (or will win it) because they have spent wisely while also improving their ground with new changing rooms and facilities. All they really lack in terms of on the pitch is the floodlights. Just because other teams (with bigger budgets) have not met their levels shouldn't mean we thought the baby out with the bath water.

Absolutely.

Glasgow City Council have done absolutely nothing at all to assist Lok over the years despite the club engaging with them many times on various issues.Having a supportive local authority is a huge advantage.

[Johnny Sox]

From WOSFL website.

6. All Clubs participating in the Premier Division must actively work towards obtaining their Scottish FA National  Club License. 

[Lokloyal]

37 minutes ago, Johnny Sox said:

From WOSFL website.

6. All Clubs participating in the Premier Division must actively work towards obtaining their Scottish FA National  Club License. 

Wonder what that means in practice eg are teams like Beith etc demonstrating that they are complying with this-and is it being monitored?

[jimbaxters]

Does Scotland have one of the worst examples of a pyramid in football? Do any others have a scenario where league winners may not get promoted? Some stato must know.

[AM-1]

1 hour ago, Lokloyal said:

Absolutely.

Glasgow City Council have done absolutely nothing at all to assist Lok over the years despite the club engaging with them many times on various issues.Having a supportive local authority is a huge advantage.

But surely Polloks massive under achievment on the park is of a bigger concern. There's been some amount of high end players through the door recently with little in the way of return.

[theesel1994]

6 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

I do think it is unfair on some Prem Clubs in all 3 Tier 6 Leagues to be expected to get a licence when they will probably never challenge for the title. There are a number of other points to make but think that's enough for now.

Around this time a year ago Beith were getting pumped 8-1 at Barrfields. I think most people would have said they would "probably never challenge for the title" this season. Eventually Auchinleck, Darvel, Clydebank etc will go up to the LL (and likely beyond) leaving behind a Tier 6 League for clubs that seemingly will "probably never challenge for the title."

[peasy23]

34 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Does Scotland have one of the worst examples of a pyramid in football? Do any others have a scenario where league winners may not get promoted? Some stato must know.

Yes, Scotland has one of the worst pyramids in football, but it's not alone in teams having to meet certain criteria to gain promotion.

In England there are various levels of licence and the higher up you go in the non-league pyramid then the higher the criteria. If you don't meet the criteria for the league above the one you are playing in by March 31st, then you are ineligible for promotion or to take part in the playoffs.

[Johnny Sox]

2 hours ago, Lokloyal said:

Wonder what that means in practice eg are teams like Beith etc demonstrating that they are complying with this-and is it being monitored?

No and No

[Guest]

The thing we have to remember is our pyramid is still a baby, I don't think its even 10 years old yet.

There is a lot of self-interest, self-preservation at all levels.

No-one could have foreseen Beith supplanting Darvel and any of the other licenced clubs this season; so it's highlighted this scenario sooner than was maybe expected.

We can all come up with our own preferences with regards to how the pyramid should work, so the more I think about it, the solution is proper discussion between the 4 leagues south of the Great Divide, to come up with a constitution that allows the pyramid to flow and grow for all.

 

[peasy23]

17 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

The thing we have to remember is our pyramid is still a baby, I don't think its even 10 years old yet.

There is a lot of self-interest, self-preservation at all levels.

No-one could have foreseen Beith supplanting Darvel and any of the other licenced clubs this season; so it's highlighted this scenario sooner than was maybe expected.

We can all come up with our own preferences with regards to how the pyramid should work, so the more I think about it, the solution is proper discussion between the 4 leagues south of the Great Divide, to come up with a constitution that allows the pyramid to flow and grow for all.

 

The pyramid is growing for all, it's 3 years old in the West ffs and one of them was lost due to COVID. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by peasy23

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

The pyramid is growing for all, it's 3 years old in the West ffs and one of them was lost due to COVID. 

Wow calm doon dude, is that not what I said; its still a baby and despite some off the grumblings it's been a massive success in the West. 

New clubs and set ups sprouting up and more interested, all the clubs getting licenced and those going through the process, Big Scottish victories and mainstream media attention, the joined up league structure across the country.

Yep there have been and will continue to be hiccups along the way.

Before this season I had virtually stopped following football. But have now attended West, South, Lowland and East games, hopefully there are others who are doing the same.

If you read my posts I have been very positive 're the WOSFL.  

I just started the talk about the licencing because it is such a major part of the game now and going forward. In the long run doesn't matter to me who wins the Prem, nobody saw Beith being there and with them being ineligible for the play-off it made it a worthwhile discussion point.

[Spyro]

2 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

Does Scotland have one of the worst examples of a pyramid in football? Do any others have a scenario where league winners may not get promoted? Some stato must know.

I'm sure @Marten will fill you in with the Dutch system. It's posted somewhere but it makes our current system seem civilised! England's "pyramid" isn't much better with Gloucester City and Lowestoft playing in the North leagues and it's not uncommon across Europe for tier 2 sides not having the requirements to be promoted...

We aren't a lone case of utter incompetence

[Lokloyal]

2 hours ago, AM-1 said:

But surely Polloks massive under achievment on the park is of a bigger concern. There's been some amount of high end players through the door recently with little in the way of return.

Yes we need to be delivering on the park where it has for  some time been so near so far which isn’t good enough.

However off the park  having  a local authority which simply has no interest in the club means that infrastructure issues and projects are a real struggle -it is disappointing when clubs in other local authority areas seem to get backing from their Councils.

[jimbaxters]

10 hours ago, peasy23 said:

Yes, Scotland has one of the worst pyramids in football, but it's not alone in teams having to meet certain criteria to gain promotion.

In England there are various levels of licence and the higher up you go in the non-league pyramid then the higher the criteria. If you don't meet the criteria for the league above the one you are playing in by March 31st, then you are ineligible for promotion or to take part in the playoffs.

 

8 hours ago, Spyro said:

I'm sure @Marten will fill you in with the Dutch system. It's posted somewhere but it makes our current system seem civilised! England's "pyramid" isn't much better with Gloucester City and Lowestoft playing in the North leagues and it's not uncommon across Europe for tier 2 sides not having the requirements to be promoted...

We aren't a lone case of utter incompetence

Sorry, I should have been clearer with my point. Wasn't referring to the licensing requirements, rather the fact that there are three different Tier 6 leagues and only one of those three league winners can get promoted to Tier 5. There can't be many examples who have that situation.

[jimbaxters]

9 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

The thing we have to remember is our pyramid is still a baby, I don't think its even 10 years old yet.

There is a lot of self-interest, self-preservation at all levels.

No-one could have foreseen Beith supplanting Darvel and any of the other licenced clubs this season; so it's highlighted this scenario sooner than was maybe expected.

We can all come up with our own preferences with regards to how the pyramid should work, so the more I think about it, the solution is proper discussion between the 4 leagues south of the Great Divide, to come up with a constitution that allows the pyramid to flow and grow for all.

 

There should only be one way it works. If the club have the licensing requirements and win the league they should be promoted. It's that simple. "Baby" or not, it's not a pyramid until that happens.

[FairWeatherFan]

25 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

 

Sorry, I should have been clearer with my point. Wasn't referring to the licensing requirements, rather the fact that there are three different Tier 6 leagues and only one of those three league winners can get promoted to Tier 5. There can't be many examples who have that situation.

There are. It's just the further down a pyramid the less likely a random on a Scottish football forum is going to be aware of what's going on abroad.

For years the one most people might have an awareness of was Spain's 3rd Tier. 4 Groups/Divisions group winners went into a playoff where 2 were automatically promoted. The losing 2 were then dropped into the playoff bracket involving 2nd-4th place teams. So a 4th placed team could be promoted over their own division champion. Similar story in their 4th tier.

After decades of that they've gone through a recent restructuring though.

 

 

[jimbaxters]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There are. It's just the further down a pyramid the less likely a random on a Scottish football forum is going to be aware of what's going on abroad.

For years the one most people might have an awareness of was Spain's 3rd Tier. 4 Groups/Divisions group winners went into a playoff where 2 were automatically promoted. The losing 2 were then dropped into the playoff bracket involving 2nd-4th place teams. So a 4th placed team could be promoted over their own division champion. Similar story in their 4th tier.

After decades of that they've gone through a recent restructuring though.

 

 

That was why I asked the question. Wasn't pretending to know the answer. Although, your answer is in the past tense so maybe ours is the worst after all. Also, the scenario you described, although awful still allows for a scenario where all four of those winners could still go up. Ours only allows for one, regardless of anything else.