EPL 20/21

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Mitrovic obviously arguing against the red because he probably does that 5 or so times a season.

An elbow to the head isn't great but there weas no forceful contact required for a red. If Dean saw it he should have given a yellow but VAR can only give reds. I guess they felt after wasting 4 minutes they had to do something or look like comoplete clowns for not getting on with it.

[Jambomo]

1 minute ago, Mark Connolly said:

Mitrovic was really quick to come over after the red card was brandished, but not so quick to get up from the actual incident as he rolled about holding his head in apparent agony

Exactly. I mean, it’s good that he did go over, but he’d be better not overreacting and rolling about in the first place. I expect he was trying to get a free-kick/waste some time but going down like that is pathetic.

[Mr. Brightside]

Two awful decisions in a week from Mike 'red card' Dean.

[Jambomo]

Redknapp was truly raging there

[Diamonds are Forever]

It's a prime example of why players dive or go down in a heap. If Mitrovic had reacted naturally to that it wouldn't even have been noticed. But go down in a heap and you get the opposition a red card.

It makes the game so much harder to referee too, if players knew there was no benefit in throwing themselves down all the time there would be less decisions to make like this. Aside from spoiling the game they are just making things harder for themselves.

[Ro Sham Bo]

27 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Redknapp was truly raging there

Struggling to imagine Redknapp managing anything other than inoffensive neutrality. 

[Binos]

Two horror show red card decisions in two weeks

[Binos]

32 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

It's a prime example of why players dive or go down in a heap. If Mitrovic had reacted naturally to that it wouldn't even have been noticed. But go down in a heap and you get the opposition a red card.

It makes the game so much harder to referee too, if players knew there was no benefit in throwing themselves down all the time there would be less decisions to make like this. Aside from spoiling the game they are just making things harder for themselves.

Retrospectively send off a few mitrovic's for diving and it all goes away

Refs are complicite fannies

[Mark Connolly]

9 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

Struggling to imagine Redknapp managing anything other than inoffensive neutrality. 

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12211000/sou269ek-red-card-angers-redknapp

[Binos]

4 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12211000/sou269ek-red-card-angers-redknapp

Embarrassing, the refereeing

[Diamonds are Forever]

My view on VAR has always been that any review must be initiated by the on field referee. I really don't like the idea of a bunch of officials not at the game asking the referee to look at something. Without wanting to get into amateur psychology, if you are called over as a referee to look at an incident you must be aware that the VAR officials think it is a red card, therefore immediately you are on the look out for anything at all that could be a red card offence, and it must feel a lot easier giving a red knowing that other officials think it is. It would take a brave person to publicly disagree with them. Dean usually looks very confident and arsey when giving a red card, I thought he looked almost embarrassed tonight, as if he didn't want to but felt he had to.

Goal line technology and offside (to a lesser extent) are more objective decisions where technology can intervene on the playing field, but things like this should not be being highlighted by officials not at the game. It may well be that Mike Dean would have asked to see it and sent him off anyway but I think it's less likely.

As I say, other than offside and goal line technology, I think VAR should only be in the form of a replay at the on-field referee's request. Undoubtedly it would mean that certain things get missed, but there is no perfect solution here and I think that is the best happy medium available.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Diamonds are Forever

[vikingTON]

It should not be left solely to a referee to determine whether he has made the correct decision or needs extra help. Half the referees in football would stick to their guns and refuse any review of their shocking decisions. There needs to be scope for the managers to make a limited number of challenges - but beyond that there should be no intervention. 

This has to apply for offside as well because the decisions are not objective when it comes to the ridiculous degree of pixel-interpretation that VAR has already boiled down to. Let the assistant make their call on the park and if either manager wants to risk a challenge on the decision then that should be allowed. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by vikingTON

[Jambomo]

I actually feel a bit sorry for the Referees now. 

I think that going down the rabbit hole of having ‘ there is contact therefore it’s a foul’  is one of the main problems. It means that players play acting when they feel the slightest touch means the ref has to now treat that as a foul and clearly accidental contact is punished as a foul. This leads to harsher than deserved punishment because if it’s accidental it’s often not when attempting to get the ball so it’s treated as a red.

VAR now means that there is less room for common sense in decision making which I think that refs did use before it.  Being seen to not correctly apply the rules will probably result in them getting into trouble, so you end up with what we have now.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

7 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

My view on VAR has always been that any review must be initiated by the on field referee. I really don't like the idea of a bunch of officials not at the game asking the referee to look at something. Without wanting to get into amateur psychology, if you are called over as a referee to look at an incident you must be aware that the VAR officials think it is a red card, therefore immediately you are on the look out for anything at all that could be a red card offence, and it must feel a lot easier giving a red knowing that other officials think it is. It would take a brave person to publicly disagree with them. Dean usually looks very confident and arsey when giving a red card, I thought he looked almost embarrassed tonight, as if he didn't want to but felt he had to.

Goal line technology and offside (to a lesser extent) are more objective decisions where technology can intervene on the playing field, but things like this should not be being highlighted by officials not at the game. It may well be that Mike Dean would have asked to see it and sent him off anyway but I think it's less likely.

As I say, other than offside and goal line technology, I think VAR should only be in the form of a replay at the on-field referee's request. Undoubtedly it would mean that certain things get missed, but there is no perfect solution here and I think that is the best happy medium available.

Regarding the psychology I sort of agree - wonder as well if the timing of theincidents plays a part too?

at a personal level I can barely be fucked at the tail end of my shifts some days, so a referee doing a VAR review might well make a decision later on in a match (going by that clip at 90+7mins) than they perhaps would call differently if it happens early on. tired legs from running about keeping up with play, stress, aggravation from players doing their best Wayne Rooney impression and calling him a c**t every time a call goes against them etc. etc.

whatever the case would agree with VT above that getting referees to scrutinise their own calls is a poor idea.

[vikingTON]

5 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

 

I think that going down the rabbit hole of having ‘ there is contact therefore it’s a foul’  is one of the main problems. It means that players play acting when they feel the slightest touch means the ref has to now treat that as a foul and clearly accidental contact is punished as a foul. 

Can't fully agree, as 'accidental contact' should absolutely be punished by a foul if it genuinely impedes the opponent. If you jump for a punt up the park, swing your arm and accidentally clobber someone with it then it's a foul. If you accidentally trip someone when trying to track their run then it's a foul. The 'deliberate' nature of it should only change the severity of the punishment, not the decision to award a foul. 

Not all contact impedes an opponent though which is where the issue lies.

[peasy23]

Superb by Fernandes.

[Binos]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

Can't fully agree, as 'accidental contact' should absolutely be punished by a foul if it genuinely impedes the opponent. If you jump for a punt up the park, swing your arm and accidentally clobber someone with it then it's a foul. If you accidentally trip someone when trying to track their run then it's a foul. The 'deliberate' nature of it should only change the severity of the punishment, not the decision to award a foul. 

Not all contact impedes an opponent though which is where the issue lies.

And if you dive from the slightest touch to get an opponent sent off, you should be retrospectively punished to stop people doing it

[Trackdaybob]

Just now, peasy23 said:

Superb by Fernandes.

Yeah!!!! That! 

 

[8MileBU]

That’s pure filth Bruno.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Pickford would have saved it.