Slovakia v Scotland - 15/11

[King Kebab]

Or just putting it in the net with his first touch from 10 yards out as you would expect any international centre forward to do. Griffiths would score that 9 times out of 10, as would Shankland.

Then why has Griffiths only scored 4 times in 21 appearances with 50% of them being from dead ball situations???

[the_bully_wee]

4 hours ago, Andrew Driver said:

1.  McBurnie isn't an effective attacking focal point, he's quite the opposite.   He doesn't run the channels, and is bullied by defenders.   Watch the game back and Ryan Christie was an effective attacking focal point.   Play it into him and he'll retain possession or win a foul.   I think the moot point you're raising is McBurnie is tallish like Dykes.   But again that doesn't matter because Steven Naismith (who's considerably shorter) is better in the air.   

2.  I notice you talked about a "Seriously-unfit Griffiths" (and you're right that Leigh is carrying some timber) but fail to mention that McBurnie was blowing out his arse after 20 mins.   During the Serbia game ( or most important for 22 years)  he jogged about for 30 mins.    

We simply haven't gathered enough evidence to confidently state this.    Shankland played better in Russia that McBurnie has in any of many Scotland A and under 21 caps.   He was fine against San Marino.   He nearly had an assist in todays game.   Shankland makes the runs goal scorers make.   The runs Ally McCoist, John Robertson, Billy Dodds, Kenny Miller, Kris Boyd made for Scotland.   Unlike McBurnie he has a footballing brain.    

What we can state with the upmost certainty is that Ollie McBurnie is some way off being international quality.   We've reels of tape as evidence.   

1. Bullied by defenders is quite the statement. You do realise that players can act as a focal point by dropping deep to receive the ball (as McBurnie does more than adequately) rather than just chase lost causes and launch himself into centre backs to contest headers, which seem to be the bases for everyone thinking Lyndon Dykes is the second coming. The latter is clearly our best option - by some distance - but McBurnie is equally clearly our second best for that position, should Dykes be unavailable. That is the sole basis of my argument, and a view which, mercifully, Steve Clarke shares.

2. Leigh is not only carrying timber, but his last appearance clocking in at longer than 45 mins came in March. In any case, we need more of a linkup player and as I said, that's not his game. He is the type to play on the shoulder.

I think we can safely say that Shankland isn't - presently - a better option than McBurnie. He's struggling to find his full form in the Premiership, and is plainly a penalty box striker. Clarke clearly wants as much consistency as possible with our formation and system, so he's not going to put in a penalty box striker for Dykes if he can avoid it. McBurnie offers the closest skill-set to Dykes, without the sheer workrate or ability to contest duels.

McBurnie is clearly, on current form, a sizeable downgrade on Dykes for us, but the fact remains that every other alternative would weaken us just as much, if not more. Defence of him doesn't mean I'm a McBurnie fan (I'm really not, and I am in full agreement that he hasn't shown up well for Scotland), but people have to accept the reality of the situation which is that we are very weak and lacking in any depth when it comes to out-and-out strikers. If Dykes was out for any length of time then we'd be in very a tough spot, regardless of who was to start in his place. We can't just magic up a better striker - hopefully he or someone else can step up and stake a claim - so we shouldn't be heaping masses of pressure on someone who the manager and the other players are clearly desperate to help find form in a Scotland jersey.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

As much as he's a rat faced little ****, the biggest miss yesterday (Dykes aside) was Ryan Jack. 

There's nobody else who does the same job that he does, certainly not Kenny McLean who is not a player who can sit in front of the defence and break up opposition attacks. Slovakia wouldn't have scored yesterday if Jack had been on the field. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

7 hours ago, King Kebab said:

Then why has Griffiths only scored 4 times in 21 appearances with 50% of them being from dead ball situations???

I've never really understood the God-like status that some Scotland fans give Griffiths. I presume it's based on 2 free kicks against England. 

His intermittent Scotland performances have been pretty much underwhelming, he doesn't link up play, doesn't bring others into the game, and rarely scores.

There's a reason why various Celtic managers don't trust him to play in European games, and why various Scotland managers don't see him as a starter. He's very good in the flat track bully world that Celtic play most of their games in, but in the 'big' games he can be a passenger. 

[No_Problemo]

15 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I've never really understood the God-like status that some Scotland fans give Griffiths. I presume it's based on 2 free kicks against England. 

His intermittent Scotland performances have been pretty much underwhelming, he doesn't link up play, doesn't bring others into the game, and rarely scores.

There's a reason why various Celtic managers don't trust him to play in European games, and why various Scotland managers don't see him as a starter. He's very good in the flat track bully world that Celtic play most of their games in, but in the 'big' games he can be a passenger. 

This isn’t remotely true about Griffiths - in Strachan’s last campaign he linked the play and caused defences all sorts of issues. In that England game alone, taking away his free kicks, he was brilliant. 

[Stellaboz]

He can also create chances where McBurnie wouldn't. His last second effort a prime example. Nobody is making him a God like figure though, pipe down.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

12 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

This isn’t remotely true about Griffiths - in Strachan’s last campaign he linked the play and caused defences all sorts of issues. In that England game alone, taking away his free kicks, he was brilliant. 

 

2 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

He can also create chances where McBurnie wouldn't. His last second effort a prime example. Nobody is making him a God like figure though, pipe down.

Give me the reason then why consecutive Celtic managers haven't trusted him to play in big games, and why he rarely starts for Scotland. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Bob Mahelp

[TheScarf]

 

If Clarke persists on bringing McBurnie on/playing him when Dykes is unavailable, then he needs to change the system.

McBurnie can't play as a lone striker, you either keep the system and don't play him, or you change the system and do play him.  

I kind of feel sorry for McBurnie, being asked to play a system that he can't.  That's on Clarke, it's the only black mark against him as Scotland manager.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

27 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

 

Give me the reason then why consecutive Celtic managers haven't trusted him to play in big games, and why he rarely starts for Scotland. 

Cause they're able to buy top strikers worth 25 milllion who are french internationals in waiting etc.  I don't believe Scotland have that option.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

I mean we dont' have Edouard or Dembele to choose from do we or I dare say they'd be in front of Griffiths in the pecking order for us too.

Could be a good time to give Che Adams a call, with the carrot of a tournament now.  But McBurnie will come good, he had a couple of chances last night, none of them sittters.  No big deal.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 minute ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Cause they're able to buy top strikers worth 25 milllion who are french internationals in waiting etc.  I don't believe Scotland have that option.

Look, everyone arguing for Griffiths is right...to a certain extent. I agree he's a natural goalscorer, and over the last 7 or 8 years the best Scottish striker in Scotland.

But.....he's now 30. He only has 21 caps in 8 years and very few as a starter. He has a massive 4 goals, 2 from free kicks. 

At what point do we start to look at why consecutive Scotland managers don't think he's all that good ?

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Look, everyone arguing for Griffiths is right...to a certain extent. I agree he's a natural goalscorer, and over the last 7 or 8 years the best Scottish striker in Scotland.

But.....he's now 30. He only has 21 caps in 8 years and very few as a starter. He has a massive 4 goals, 2 from free kicks. 

At what point do we start to look at why consecutive Scotland managers don't think he's all that good ?

I agree he has weaknesses for the role we ask but its about his competition, he doesn't have much.  Shankland isn't good enough at this level, not yet anyway, and McBurnie it isn't happening for just now.

So Griffiths will continue to get lots of game time, and will be in the squad next summer. And he is our best bet of taking a chance too so its worth having him there.

[Dunning1874]

8 hours ago, the_bully_wee said:

1. Bullied by defenders is quite the statement. You do realise that players can act as a focal point by dropping deep to receive the ball (as McBurnie does more than adequately) rather than just chase lost causes and launch himself into centre backs to contest headers, which seem to be the bases for everyone thinking Lyndon Dykes is the second coming. The latter is clearly our best option - by some distance - but McBurnie is equally clearly our second best for that position, should Dykes be unavailable. That is the sole basis of my argument, and a view which, mercifully, Steve Clarke shares.

2. Leigh is not only carrying timber, but his last appearance clocking in at longer than 45 mins came in March. In any case, we need more of a linkup player and as I said, that's not his game. He is the type to play on the shoulder.

I think we can safely say that Shankland isn't - presently - a better option than McBurnie. He's struggling to find his full form in the Premiership, and is plainly a penalty box striker. Clarke clearly wants as much consistency as possible with our formation and system, so he's not going to put in a penalty box striker for Dykes if he can avoid it. McBurnie offers the closest skill-set to Dykes, without the sheer workrate or ability to contest duels.

McBurnie is clearly, on current form, a sizeable downgrade on Dykes for us, but the fact remains that every other alternative would weaken us just as much, if not more. Defence of him doesn't mean I'm a McBurnie fan (I'm really not, and I am in full agreement that he hasn't shown up well for Scotland), but people have to accept the reality of the situation which is that we are very weak and lacking in any depth when it comes to out-and-out strikers. If Dykes was out for any length of time then we'd be in very a tough spot, regardless of who was to start in his place. We can't just magic up a better striker - hopefully he or someone else can step up and stake a claim - so we shouldn't be heaping masses of pressure on someone who the manager and the other players are clearly desperate to help find form in a Scotland jersey.

You're all over the place here. You're simultaneously arguing that people are being harsh on McBurnie because he doesn't offer the same skills as Dykes so you can't expect him to play the same way, but also that he's the best alternative to Dykes because none of our other strikers can play the same way as Dykes.

You've also argued that other centre forwards have demonstrated they aren't good enough over the course of three caps, while simultaneously arguing that anyone writing someone off for only managing one good sub appearance in the course of 14 caps is just looking for a scapegoat rather than making a fair judgement on their performances in over 11 hours of football.

[ewan14]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

As much as he's a rat faced little ****, the biggest miss yesterday (Dykes aside) was Ryan Jack. 

There's nobody else who does the same job that he does, certainly not Kenny McLean who is not a player who can sit in front of the defence and break up opposition attacks. Slovakia wouldn't have scored yesterday if Jack had been on the field. 

Mmmm maybe

[John Lambies Doos]

I'll always tip my hat for the bottle shown by McBurnie to slot that penalty. Apart from that he's shite and should be nowhere near this team

[DanMc99]

I seen someone mention Che Adams, That would be a good option if he would commit to us.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

I'm gonna come right out and say it.  I've no idea who Che Adams is.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I'm gonna come right out and say it.  I've no idea who Che Adams is.

Striker for Southampton.  Eligible for us through grandparent rule, pretty handy. Big, strong, mobile, can score a goal and still relatively young 26 or something. 

Has been asked before and said no but maybe in future, realistically he isn't getting in the England squad so maybe he'd be interested now. 

Bit of a minter going cap in hand to an England reject that has already turned us down once, but don't care, he would be a great option and would have improved us a lot last night.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

That's a couple of years ago when he was at Birmingham.  He's 24, would be a great addition for us.