The ghosts of relegation

[andrewh]

I posted this on a St Johnstone forum but thought I’d expand it to us all. Tell us your experiences of your team’s haunting.

Recent results and performances have seen us lower down the league than we’d all like. Some of us have a feeling of impending doom, others are confident. Surely a squad this good cannot be so poor as to merit a haunting.

Lots of St Johnstone fans are too young to remember the ghost of relegation past. None of us want to encounter the ghost of relegation present or the ghost of relegation yet to come. We always hope they visit some other unfortunate club.

Maybe some of those old enough could spread some more misery at this most wonderful time of the year by recalling their memories of the ghost who used to visit St Johnstone (or another club) regularly and why he came.

By confronting those dark memories we perhaps may be better prepared to contend with the spectre that, for some, is currently looming over McDiarmid Park (and a few others).

[Ric]

Relegation is a double edged sword. Despite the fall from grace, there are some positives to go with the negatives.

Pros:
Generally those who are failing your club get shipped out (either player or manager)
You drop from being a smaller fish in a big pond, to a bigger fish in a smaller pond
Depending on the side, there is a good chance you will see your club challenging for the title

Cons:
There is no doubting, it's like a hangover and everyone around the club is affected
Any up and coming star player is likely to be snapped up as the club looks for money
You no longer get the level of coverage of your games (no sportsound/sportscene - other than open mics)

[tamthebam]

I can remember Saints being Second Division also rans in the 1980s after a double relegation in successive seasons.

Geoff Brown came in, ASDA made an offer for Muirton, McDiarmid donated some land and Alex Totten assembled a tasty attacking team. I wouldn't have said if this hadn't happened Saints would still be in the bottom division as they're fairly big in Scottish football terms but you'd probably be on a par with Ayr United- old stadium, usually in the Championship but the top flight remains the promised land.

Anyway 

Pros: Not having the great unwashed of certain clubs visiting unless it's for cup ties

Challenging at the top is more exciting than mid table mediocrity

The Challenge Cup could be yours 

A derby with Dundee for fun and games

Being able to stand at a game if a club like Arbroath are in the Championship.

Probably better pies

Kick offs likely to be 3pm on a Saturday

Cons:

Less money

 

[Ric]

33 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

Pros: Not having the great unwashed of certain clubs visiting unless it's for cup ties

Yes! Something I forgot to add into my positives, the lack of having to deal with the OF. Granted that's been less of an issue this season, but dealing with their supporters (and to be fair the majority are absolutely fine, partisan but not necessarily cuntish) and all the complaints should your club offer more seating, coupled with being treated like second class citizens at their ground (normally with the worst - or obstructed - view) is a thing you will not miss when you drop a league.

[craigkillie]

I've never seen us get relegated - if we did I reckon it could take us 5 years at least to get back up. It's not an easy division to get out of even if you are the biggest club in it, as Rangers, Hibs and Dundee United have all discovered.

[bennett]

Being relegated, especially to the third division is a bit of a kunt but we had some laughs along the way. The one thing that still stands out was thinking where the fcuk was Annan.

 

[Gorgie greatness]

Piece of pish lads, it’ll be like we’ve never been away

[invergowrie arab]

TBH the Championship is far more fun than the Premier. Yes the football is rubbish, officiating pish etc but the opportunity to go to some interesting grounds makes up for it.

A couple of thousand away fans in the terracing at Arbroath or Alloa on a cold winter afternoon is what football is all about. 

[GAD]

I hate getting relegated, the only good season in the championship is the one where you win it and get promoted.

[AmericanFan]

2 hours ago, Ric said:

Yes! Something I forgot to add into my positives, the lack of having to deal with the OF. Granted that's been less of an issue this season, but dealing with their supporters (and to be fair the majority are absolutely fine, partisan but not necessarily cuntish) and all the complaints should your club offer more seating, coupled with being treated like second class citizens at their ground (normally with the worst - or obstructed - view) is a thing you will not miss when you drop a league.

What is the economic impact (if any) for the smaller clubs when they host the OF?  I'm assuming the games are close to capacity (does St. Mirren get more than 7K fans)? I'm not suggesting this should make you not dislike the OF, btw, just wondering.

[Aim Here]

Just now, AmericanFan said:

What is the economic impact (if any) for the smaller clubs when they host the OF?  I'm assuming the games are close to capacity (does St. Mirren get more than 7K fans)? I'm not suggesting this should make you not dislike the OF, btw, just wondering.

Depends on the club. Some, like Livingston or St Johnstone or Killie, have lots of excess space in their stadiums and will more than double their normal gate. Others will just take a stadium that's 3/4 full on an average matchday to more or less full.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Do people not enjoy playing the Old Firm? Fair enough it's shite getting scudded but Celtic and Rangers are the Home games I look forward to most every season. 

[Ric]

7 minutes ago, AmericanFan said:

What is the economic impact (if any) for the smaller clubs when they host the OF?  I'm assuming the games are close to capacity (does St. Mirren get more than 7K fans)? I'm not suggesting this should make you not dislike the OF, btw, just wondering.

It varies from club to club to be honest, it's perhaps over estimated by some quite how much revenue those extra fans bring in - because the flip side to an increased travelling support you need to hire more stewards (the OF fans have a tendency to "be lively" when things don't go their way) and the hit to your own home attendance from fans that just don't enjoy the circus. I'll admit to being in the latter at times, not really wishing to hear the somewhat vile "commentary" that can emanate from a certain section of OF supporters.

Without wishing to cast aspersion, there are clubs that benefit more purely from their own fan base not necessarily being that strong. On the flip side Killie who have a fairly healthy (in relative terms) regular attendance have a much larger stadium that could accommodate more fans - I believe not far off 18000, compared to over half that at St Mirren.

There is, of course, the now somewhat famous speech given by Stevie Clarke about saying "bye bye" to the OF if fans bothered to turn up. I'm sure someone will no doubt share that if you haven't seen it before.

[Derry Alli]

16 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Do people not enjoy playing the Old Firm? Fair enough it's shite getting scudded but Celtic and Rangers are the Home games I look forward to most every season. 

This. I love when the Old Firm come to town. Hibs and Hearts, too. 

Might be different for United fans but I just find Aberdeen fans boring AF when they come through to Dens. They never have a laugh, just dour bastirts. Shite songs too. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

1 minute ago, Mr. Alli said:

This. I love when the Old Firm come to town. Hibs and Hearts, too. 

Might be different for United fans but I just find Aberdeen fans boring AF when they come through to Dens. They never have a laugh, just dour bastirts. Shite songs too. 

Aye I appreciate there's some good away games and a bit of variety but I find it hard to believe anyone going down to the Championship is thinking "yasss finally a chance to play Ayr and Morton at home four times a year instead of the OF."

[Thistle_do_nicely]

Unironically gutted by how far we've slid down post playoff defeat 

A bit of a sliding doors thing if we had held on against Livi and saw it out - we'd have punted most of the wasters from that season (Osman as club captain especially) and might have retained Kevin Nisbet to punt him on loan for starters, and maybe Archie would have learned not to rely on players coming back from injury to dig you out - we did f**k all in January that year which was a massive mistake. Edit: cant underestimate how bad the decision to keep archie as manager + not make any signings in january was, if we either punted the manager or got even a couple of new players in we had a chance, but we did neither and it killed us in the end. Huge month coming up for the current top flight, county arent fucking around.

The lower leagues arent the problem, its having a team that are garbage back-to-front in whatever league you're in that kills enthusiasm. Watching a team fling in goals at set pieces, struggle to make chances (and then struggle to score what is created), let teams run through your midfield like butter etc. etc. All are recurring themes from the top flight relegation season to the seaside league we're in now. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Thistle_do_nicely

[stevieKTID]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I've never seen us get relegated - if we did I reckon it could take us 5 years at least to get back up. It's not an easy division to get out of even if you are the biggest club in it, as Rangers, Hibs and Dundee United have all discovered.

I've witnessed it twice, it was utterly devastating at the time but i must admit i absolutely loved those seasons in div 1 and then div2 (especially the away days) and of course the Tommy Burns era was wonderful, i had to continually remind myself during the Stevie Clarke era that it was an exception and to enjoy it to the full. 

[Ric]

4 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Aye I appreciate there's some good away games and a bit of variety but I find it hard to believe anyone going down to the Championship is thinking "yasss finally a chance to play Ayr and Morton at home four times a year instead of the OF."

Those are two different things.

Some people do look forward to playing new teams, like Ayr or Morton, simply to remove the monotony of playing the same teams 4, 5 or even 6 times over the season. Albeit I think most would prefer the case to be them coming up than their team going down.

However, unrelated to that, is the OF question, and I think you're underestimating quite a bit the number of people who just cannot be fucked with the whole circus that comes with the OF. It's not just that they end up, in most cases, giving you a doing, but the bile and hatred that flows out from a certain section of travelling OF support coupled with the media focusing only on one side and forgetting there's two teams on the park.

I absolutely will never attend an OF game away.

[craigkillie]

Depends on the club. Some, like Livingston or St Johnstone or Killie, have lots of excess space in their stadiums and will more than double their normal gate. Others will just take a stadium that's 3/4 full on an average matchday to more or less full.

We only sell them one stand now, and I'm hoping that won't change after covid.

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, bennett said:

Being relegated, especially to the third division is a bit of a kunt but we had some laughs along the way. The one thing that still stands out was thinking where the fcuk was Annan.

 

Ok, i'll bite. You were not relegated. A new company was allowed in half way up the pyramid. 

You should know that the establishment does not relegate its clubs.