Casper Wilson Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 With it now at 5 leagues of 16, it would seem that they've reached their target capacity. But from what I gather that means that all 80 clubs are now Senior clubs playing in the Senior pyramid. Where would a relegated club go if there's no senior league for them to go to? Maybe someone should start up an Ayrshire League and a Central League as senior feeders into the WOS. Those Leagues could be looked after separately with play offs to get into the WoS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Casper Wilson said: With it now at 5 leagues of 16, it would seem that they've reached their target capacity. But from what I gather that means that all 80 clubs are now Senior clubs playing in the Senior pyramid. Where would a relegated club go if there's no senior league for them to go to? Maybe someone should start up an Ayrshire League and a Central League as senior feeders into the WOS. Those Leagues could be looked after separately with play offs to get into the WoS. For the sake of integrity, no play offs for league champions please. Then they really would be as bad as the numpties above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Wilson Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 1 minute ago, jimbaxters said: For the sake of integrity, no play offs for league champions please. Then they really would be as bad as the numpties above. So sorry, I hadn't thought that far ahead. But you are right. Automatic for the 2 winners. Show that Lowlife League how it should be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 54 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: Absolute nonsense. The SPFL ran a closed shop for donkeys years and take hee-haw to do with the tiers below them. What are their criteria for compliant clubs to enter? Have a licence, win your league then fight your way through four play off games. They only have a back door due to others looking after it for them but now the WoSFL have to take everyone? Again, nonsense. The SPFL has not been a closed shop at any time since it formed 10 years ago. The old Scottish Football League certainly was one, and was criticised as a result, which partly led to the creation of the pyramid (under pressure from UEFA). 46 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said: So what do they do, keep expanding every few years making it harder to run? There needs to be a cap at some point and it should be now. If other clubs want to look at moving up then l would say to the to look at what was suggested above and get their existing league to negotiate a promotion relegation with the WOSFL. Adding extra leagues certainly requires more volunteers, but having more clubs in the division also gives you more volunteers to draw on. Each division could have its own committee and secretary drawn from the clubs in the division, which could deal with all the minor issues in that division. Otherwise, if the WoSFL is set on having a maximum number of clubs, it should be required to have an open and transparent process for entry into the league so that any ambitious club in the region can see their path into senior football. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 1 minute ago, craigkillie said: The SPFL has not been a closed shop at any time since it formed 10 years ago. The old Scottish Football League certainly was one, and was criticised as a result, which partly led to the creation of the pyramid (under pressure from UEFA). Adding extra leagues certainly requires more volunteers, but having more clubs in the division also gives you more volunteers to draw on. Each division could have its own committee and secretary drawn from the clubs in the division, which could deal with all the minor issues in that division. Otherwise, if the WoSFL is set on having a maximum number of clubs, it should be required to have an open and transparent process for entry into the league so that any ambitious club in the region can see their path into senior football. Having been involved at this level for a long time now, I can say confidently that not many people volunteer for these positions. it is difficult to get people to come one board, while at the same time they are looking after their own club, it is a thankless task too. What you are describing is utopian but it not achievable imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 30 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: For the sake of integrity, no play offs for league champions please. Then they really would be as bad as the numpties above. Since we're down to basically amateur level applicants. Do you see a majority of WoSFL clubs willing to vote in a promotion / relegation format with ammie level grounds? We already know there's a section in the membership that don't think they should be relegated to the 4th Division. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) The WoS is evolving and trying to deal with various situations. However, .......... Given that most anticipated that at least one WoS champion club would have won the play-off for entry to the LL in the last two seasons there has to be a road-map for the situation whereby the same happens again at the end of 2023/24 and, worse, a WoS area club is also relegated from the LL. Would there be 81 clubs in the WoS in 2024/25 or what? Do the WoS rules deal with that situation? Would there be a temporary expansion of the Premier division or would extra clubs be relegated throughout the divisions, and would the bottom club in Division Four be thrown out of the league altogether. What is the plan? Surely the current rules have to cover this potential situation. Do they? The idea of some liaison with leagues from outside the senior pyramid sounds good. Edited June 13, 2023 by Dev . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Dev said: The WoS is evolving and trying to deal with various situations. However, .......... Given that most anticipated that at least one WoS champion club would have won the play-off for entry to the LL in the last two seasons there has to be a road-map for the situation whereby the same happens again at the end of 2023/24 and, worse, a WoS area club is also relegated from the LL. Would there be 81 clubs in the WoS in 2024/25 or what? Do the WoS rules deal with that situation? Would there be a temporary expansion of the Premier division or would extra clubs be relegated throughout the divisions, and would the bottom club in Division Four be thrown out of the league altogether. What is the plan? Surely the current rules have to cover this potential situation. Do they? The idea of some liaison with leagues from outside the senior pyramid sounds good. If there is a nett gain of one team to the WoSFL, then the 4th bottom side in each league would also be relegated. If there is a nett gain of two teams to the WoSFL, then the 4th and 5th bottom sides in each league would also be relegated. If there is a nett loss of one team to the WoSFL, then the 4th placed team in each of the Divisions below the Premier Division would also be promoted. (New rule approved by the clubs at the AGM, previously it would have been the 3rd bottom team in each league would have been spared from relegation. Now it is fixed that the bottom three teams are relegated.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Otherwise, if the WoSFL is set on having a maximum number of clubs, it should be required to have an open and transparent process for entry into the league so that any ambitious club in the region can see their path into senior football. There is no pathway now in the West unless there's a vacancy created by promotion to the LL (with no west club coming down to replace them), or a club withdraws. That's a closed shop regardless of how you dress it up. Then there's the situation where a club is relegated from the LL but the WoS Champs don't go up, then what. Looks like the WoS have got themselves into a bit of a pickle with this arbitrary 80 club figure, what happened to all the clubs in the "Development Division", were they all converted into full members? that maybe didn't help either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 37 minutes ago, craigkillie said: The SPFL has not been a closed shop at any time since it formed 10 years ago. The old Scottish Football League certainly was one, and was criticised as a result, which partly led to the creation of the pyramid (under pressure from UEFA). Really? How do you explain Ross County, Caley Thistle, Gretna, Elgin, Peterhead, Meadowbank ...? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 20 minutes ago, Stag Nation said: Really? How do you explain Ross County, Caley Thistle, Gretna, Elgin, Peterhead, Meadowbank ...? Elections that only took place when the board determined there was a vacancy. Typically seeing other compliant applicants rejected with no known table for another opportunity. Sounds familiar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 46 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Since we're down to basically amateur level applicants. Do you see a majority of WoSFL clubs willing to vote in a promotion / relegation format with ammie level grounds? We already know there's a section in the membership that don't think they should be relegated to the 4th Division. If the clubs are committed to the pyramid then yes they should. Entry to the WoSFL has criteria to live up to so it wouldn't (shouldn't) be an ammie team as we know it who come up. If the bottom club fall out the back door then that's the consequence of moving to the pyramid. Regardless of this, if a club in the tier below wins the league and meets the criteria they should be automatically promoted. Otherwise it's a load of dung. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 39 minutes ago, Burnieman said: There is no pathway now in the West unless there's a vacancy created by promotion to the LL (with no west club coming down to replace them), or a club withdraws. That's a closed shop regardless of how you dress it up. Then there's the situation where a club is relegated from the LL but the WoS Champs don't go up, then what. Looks like the WoS have got themselves into a bit of a pickle with this arbitrary 80 club figure, what happened to all the clubs in the "Development Division", were they all converted into full members? that maybe didn't help either. Genuine question as I am ignorant when it comes to the EoSFL. Do they keep accepting clubs if they meet criteria? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) Think the EoS have set quite a high bar on ground criteria, which maybe makes it easier for them to say no. They did that with a club in Perth called Letham a couple of seasons back who were quickly accepted by the Midlands League instead. Also helps that they have multiple vacancies to fill until the lowest division enters awkward numbers for their fixture secretary to deal with sort of territory and that they don't have an extreme geographical outlier like Campbeltown Pupils on board who can't easily do lots of midweek games if there is a fixture backlog. Edited June 13, 2023 by LongTimeLurker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowenan Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 https://twitter.com/stpats_fps/status/1668588096479174660 Statement from the club. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, jimbaxters said: Genuine question as I am ignorant when it comes to the EoSFL. Do they keep accepting clubs if they meet criteria? Yes, but their ground criteria appears to be tougher than the WoSFL employ eg no 3g cages, no groundshare with non-3g clubs. Linton Hotspur have just been accepted as members and had to put in a lot of work for their ground to be compliant. Edited June 13, 2023 by Burnieman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Think the EoS have set quite a high bar on ground criteria, which maybe makes it easier for them to say no. They did that with a club in Perth called Letham a couple of seasons back who were quickly accepted by the Midlands League instead. Also helps that they have multiple vacancies to fill until the lowest division enters awkward numbers for their fixture secretary to deal with sort of territory and that they don't have an extreme geographical outlier like Campbeltown Pupils on board who can't easily do lots of midweek games if there is a fixture backlog. Letham's facilities albeit Astro are far better than some other EOS teams. Viewing, catering, toilets etc all decent. I just think they did not fancy admitting them at the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Just now, superbigal said: Letham's facilities albeit Astro are far better than some other EOS teams. Viewing, catering, toilets etc all decent. I just think they did not fancy admitting them at the time. The facilities at the time didn't meet requirements after a ground inspection, from memory the word was "they have a bit to go" to meet EoS requirements and to work on these and apply the following season, therefore the clubs voted against them being admitted. It had nothing to do with "the EoS didn't fancy them" whatever that means. Existing EoS teams also have to bring their facilities upto scratch as well, hence ongoing issues with Rosyth and Peebles 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzler Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Just now, Burnieman said: The facilities at the time didn't meet requirements after a ground inspection, from memory the word was "they have a bit to go" to meet EoS requirements and to work on these and apply the following season, therefore the clubs voted against them being admitted. It had nothing to do with "the EoS didn't fancy them" whatever that means. Existing EoS teams also have to bring their facilities upto scratch as well, hence ongoing issues with Rosyth and Peebles Rosyths coat must be on a shoogly peg now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, bobbydazzler said: Rosyths coat must be on a shoogly peg now. It's an odd one. The Fleet Grounds don't meet the requirements and on the face of what we know, neither does the proposed new one. So who knows where that leaves them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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