New clubs in the West of Scotland

[Bestsinceslicebread]

6 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

It was my understanding that St Pats had an agreement to use the Astro at Argyll (subject to some modifications) for a year before moving to posties once its upgrades are complete. St Pats are would comfortably win the 4th division with their current team and more than likely the 3rd, so would assume in the intrests of self preservation that clubs in those divisions maybe weren’t too keen and saw knightswood as less of a threat. Can’t imagine the Vale being too impressed with their application seeing as they were commandeering the Argyll where all VoL pathway teams train and play!

Knightswoods u-18 team are excellent and with a few experienced players could easily compete at the lower end of WOS level, I’d be surprised if many of the current Amateur players played even though it’s that team technically moving. They also have their own park in construction which will be ready very soon. 
although they haven’t a particularly strong adult side just now, they have the pathway and infrastructure which St Pats arguably don’t. 

First of all I'm totally against new clubs not being allowed to join if they meet the criteria.

Your comment, that I have put in bold, as reasoning for St Pats not being allowed in is totally laughable, as most wouldn't have  a clue how good a level the particular team is this season if playing in the WOSFL next season.   The only main reason I can think of it location preference, because Knightswood are in Glasgow and St pats are in Dumbarton. Also if Knitghtswood having a youth pathway this coudl also have bene taking into consideration

The WOSFL I think should have a good reasoning for not allowing St pats in but allowing Knightswood in if both met the criteria as potentially it could come back and bite  their ass, you never know.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

It was my understanding that St Pats had an agreement to use the Astro at Argyll (subject to some modifications) for a year before moving to posties once its upgrades are complete. St Pats are would comfortably win the 4th division with their current team and more than likely the 3rd, so would assume in the intrests of self preservation that clubs in those divisions maybe weren’t too keen and saw knightswood as less of a threat. Can’t imagine the Vale being too impressed with their application seeing as they were commandeering the Argyll where all VoL pathway teams train and play!

Knightswoods u-18 team are excellent and with a few experienced players could easily compete at the lower end of WOS level, I’d be surprised if many of the current Amateur players played even though it’s that team technically moving. They also have their own park in construction which will be ready very soon. 
although they haven’t a particularly strong adult side just now, they have the pathway and infrastructure which St Pats arguably don’t. 

Excellent info, it should never have been a competition between the 2 clubs if both met the criteria. When presented at the agm it should have been a rubber stamping mechanism. Unless there were any specific objections. 

Whatever the reasons the clubs picked one over the other. In my view they should never have been put in that position.

The negative press Knightswood have received is not of their making and what should be a joyous occasion for them has been overshadowed.

[holmparkheroes]

Firstly, I am uncomfortable with voting teams in, sounds too much like the Lowland League in recent seasons, but secondly, the SPFL have a definitive number of clubs as do Highland/Lowland Leagues. Given that the WoSFL is administered by volunteers perhaps going past the 80 (5x16) makes it too difficult to govern. Any prospective clubs beneath the WoSFL (ammies/boys clubs) could set up their own league  with promotion/relegation to and from the 4th division WoSFL.. The WoSFL shouldn’t have to run everything below the Lowland League.

[stanley]

9 minutes ago, holmparkheroes said:

Firstly, I am uncomfortable with voting teams in, sounds too much like the Lowland League in recent seasons, but secondly, the SPFL have a definitive number of clubs as do Highland/Lowland Leagues. Given that the WoSFL is administered by volunteers perhaps going past the 80 (5x16) makes it too difficult to govern. Any prospective clubs beneath the WoSFL (ammies/boys clubs) could set up their own league  with promotion/relegation to and from the 4th division WoSFL.. The WoSFL shouldn’t have to run everything below the Lowland League.

Those leagues have a set number of clubs but have relegation (albeit inadequate) in place and leagues below them. The WoS fourth division is the bottom of the pyramid with no route in other than by being accepted at an AGM. Different argument entirely from the number of clubs in the SPFL. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

4 hours ago, Dev said:

It has been previously posted that St Pats are moving to the new Athletics facility in Dumbarton so they should be OK by next year at that ground.

It doesnt say anything on any article i can see there that there will be a suitable football surface there? There is a gaelic football grass park, but it doesnt have drainage, fences or direct access to the changing rooms?

1 hour ago, pleslie99 said:

It was my understanding that St Pats had an agreement to use the Astro at Argyll (subject to some modifications) for a year before moving to posties once its upgrades are complete. St Pats are would comfortably win the 4th division with their current team and more than likely the 3rd, so would assume in the intrests of self preservation that clubs in those divisions maybe weren’t too keen and saw knightswood as less of a threat. Can’t imagine the Vale being too impressed with their application seeing as they were commandeering the Argyll where all VoL pathway teams train and play!

Knightswoods u-18 team are excellent and with a few experienced players could easily compete at the lower end of WOS level, I’d be surprised if many of the current Amateur players played even though it’s that team technically moving. They also have their own park in construction which will be ready very soon. 
although they haven’t a particularly strong adult side just now, they have the pathway and infrastructure which St Pats arguably don’t. 

Argyll Park? Cant really see how that got beyond the committee of the wosl in the first place for playing there? There are no spectator facilities in the first place? 

[holmparkheroes]

3 minutes ago, stanley said:

Those leagues have a set number of clubs but have relegation (albeit inadequate) in place and leagues below them. The WoS fourth division is the bottom of the pyramid with no route in other than by being accepted at an AGM. Different argument entirely from the number of clubs in the SPFL. 

What I’m saying is start a lower level of the pyramid if you want to join in. You can’t expect the WoSFL to do your work for you.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, holmparkheroes said:

What I’m saying is start a lower level of the pyramid if you want to join in. You can’t expect the WoSFL to do your work for you.

There isn't a lower level. Unless you want to try the Glasgow Wellington route and spend half a season on road trips down to D&G. 

How is an individual club supposed to magic up another 7-9 Teams, sfa approval to exist, and formalise a promotion & relegation agreement with the WOSFL all by itself? 

[Yalay]

I don't fault the WoSFL for not wanting to exceed 80 clubs. But now that the league is in the enviable position of having more qualified applicants than there are positions available, it is time to negotiate a promotion/relegation agreement with the Amateurs.

[holmparkheroes]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There isn't a lower level. Unless you want to try the Glasgow Wellington route and spend half a season on road trips down to D&G. 

How is an individual club supposed to magic up another 7-9 Teams, sfa approval to exist, and formalise a promotion & relegation agreement with the WOSFL all by itself? 

There wasn’t a lower level until EoS and then WoS became part of the pyramid. I get what you’re saying about individual clubs applying, but they will mostly be part of a league which could be part of the pyramid. The SPFL probably have as many employees as the WoSFL have volunteers with half the numbers of clubs.

[holmparkheroes]

3 minutes ago, Yalay said:

I don't fault the WoSFL for not wanting to exceed 80 clubs. But now that the league is in the enviable position of having more qualified applicants than there are positions available, it is time to negotiate a promotion/relegation agreement with the Amateurs.

Absolutely.

[PossilYM]

11 hours ago, glensmad said:

That will be assessed when the event occurs.

Code for  "I haven't got a scooby doo".

[jimbaxters]

7 hours ago, stanley said:

Those leagues have a set number of clubs but have relegation (albeit inadequate) in place and leagues below them. The WoS fourth division is the bottom of the pyramid with no route in other than by being accepted at an AGM. Different argument entirely from the number of clubs in the SPFL. 

So the WoSFL, who have a 3 up/3 down promotion/relegation policy in place are now being held responsible for stifling the pyramid? They can't even get a guaranteed promotion for the top club, regardless of its licensing status, due to the closed nature of the top five tiers.

 @holmparkheroes is right by saying the office bearers are volunteers and as such are limited in numbers and resources. They can't just keep the back door open indefinitely. I do agree that it's not great to vote an ambitious club out when in the bottom league there could easily have been time for a 20 team league, especially given that many are playing on astro. However, there has to be a limit somewhere.

Edited June 13, 2023 by jimbaxters

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, jimbaxters said:

So the WoSFL, who have a 3 up/3 down promotion/relegation policy in place are now being held responsible for stifling the pyramid? They can't even get a guaranteed promotion for the top club, regardless of its licensing status, due to the closed nature of the top five tiers.

 @holmparkheroes is right by saying the office bearers are volunteers and as such are limited in numbers and resources. They can't just keep the back door open indefinitely. I do agree that it's not great to vote an ambitious club out when in the bottom league there could easily have been time for a 20 team league, especially given that many are playing on astro. However, there has to be a limit somewhere.

I don't have a great deal of sympathy if it's true that Knightswood are getting in playing at a side pitch at Scotstoun and St Pats were considered acceptable playing at Argyll Park. The pair of them should have been told to come back.

The WoSFL lowered the bar to entry to amateur level. Now playing the "woe is me" card when inundated with interest.

[LongTimeLurker]

8 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

...Argyll Park? Cant really see how that got beyond the committee of the wosl in the first place for playing there? There are no spectator facilities in the first place? 

So maybe things will look different a year from now once St Pats have a suitable ground sorted out, especially if a WoS club has been promoted to the LL but not replaced as the relegated club went to the EoS or SoS and this thread has turned into a big fuss over not very much?

[jimbaxters]

47 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I don't have a great deal of sympathy if it's true that Knightswood are getting in playing at a side pitch at Scotstoun and St Pats were considered acceptable playing at Argyll Park. The pair of them should have been told to come back.

The WoSFL lowered the bar to entry to amateur level. Now playing the "woe is me" card when inundated with interest.

In fairness, I agree with most of what you have said. The bar is way too low for entry. However, there has been no-one from the WoSFL who has said the official reason for closing at 80 clubs, at least on here. It's us who are surmising the reasons.

The main point I'm making is that they are being honest and straightforward when it comes to the potential to climb the league unlike the upper tiers.

[craigkillie]

3 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

So the WoSFL, who have a 3 up/3 down promotion/relegation policy in place are now being held responsible for stifling the pyramid? They can't even get a guaranteed promotion for the top club, regardless of its licensing status, due to the closed nature of the top five tiers.

They have a 3 up/3 down policy within their league, but they appear to be fully blocking entry of compliant clubs in the West of Scotland to the pyramid. That's an even more closed shop than the SPFL or Lowland League, who at least have a clear route to join.

[jimbaxters]

2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

They have a 3 up/3 down policy within their league, but they appear to be fully blocking entry of compliant clubs in the West of Scotland to the pyramid. That's an even more closed shop than the SPFL or Lowland League, who at least have a clear route to join.

Absolute nonsense. The SPFL ran a closed shop for donkeys years and take hee-haw to do with the tiers below them. What are their criteria for compliant clubs to enter? Have a licence, win your league then fight your way through four play off games. They only have a back door due to others looking after it for them but now the WoSFL have to take everyone? Again, nonsense.

[Arthurlie1981]

8 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

They have a 3 up/3 down policy within their league, but they appear to be fully blocking entry of compliant clubs in the West of Scotland to the pyramid. That's an even more closed shop than the SPFL or Lowland League, who at least have a clear route to join.

So what do they do, keep expanding every few years making it harder to run? There needs to be a cap at some point and it should be now. If other clubs want to look at moving up then l would say to the to look at what was suggested above and get their existing league to negotiate a promotion relegation with the WOSFL.

[stanley]

If the WoS are not able to manage any more clubs then something should be done below the WoS to give clubs an opportunity. That would likely require the SFA to take some kind of ownership and care about anything other than the Old Firm so I wouldn't expect anything to happen soon.

[jimbaxters]

6 minutes ago, stanley said:

If the WoS are not able to manage any more clubs then something should be done below the WoS to give clubs an opportunity. That would likely require the SFA to take some kind of ownership and care about anything other than the Old Firm so I wouldn't expect anything to happen soon.

Exactly. Our league have done and are doing more than enough to hold their end of this horrible pyramid up.