Null & Void or an 18 Game Season?

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

Were they told to make sacrifices were they? Was that the wording?

I don't know the exact wording, but we have a club official who was present at league meetings on here telling us that the SPFL/SFA were told to act or SG would.

What do you think happened?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Sergeant Wilson

[craigkillie]

Clearly no distinction has been made between essential and non-essential work. It's worrying that people seem to be unaware of the ScotGov Coronavirus rules. Hospitality and Retail are restricted under separate orders. 

And football outside the top two tiers is also restricted for similar reasons. Thanks for proving my point.

The government has made distinctions for parts of the retail and hospitality industries which they consider essential. Similarly, there is currently a distinction between the top two tiers and part-time or recreational football below that.

[Newbornbairn]

3 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I don't know the exact wording, but we have a club official who was present at league meetings on here telling us that the SPFL/SFA were told to act or SG would.

What do you think happened?

They were told to "act" then? Not "make sacrifices"?

 

The "act" could have been to tell L1 & L2 clubs to meet the same testing arrangements as anyone else. That's acting and ensuring a level playing field for all clubs.  Why didn't they do that?

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

And that's what a hundred or so sneering posts is all about. You've admitted repeatedly that all 3 leagues should have been shut down but you continue to parade your inadequacies purely to indulge your triumphalism that "The Famous" (giggle) are in a league above Falkirk and Partick this season. 

^^^ verge of tears

My view on what should have happened since the pandemic began is separate to the rationale given by the authorities for the current restrictions. Not to mention the decision of the SPFL clubs themselves, who foolishly attempted to run a season BCD with a view that things would somehow get better in the winter with a respiratory virus going around. Outside of the top flight, it should have been put on hold until fans returned and has proven to be a predictable enough disaster for everyone involved.

People are entitled to have different views on the rights and wrongs and whether it was wise to begin in the first place. People are not entitled to their own facts though, which is why misrepresentations of why your leagues have now been suspended will be called out. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, NewBornBairn said:

They were told to "act" then? Not "make sacrifices"?

 

The "act" could have been to tell L1 & L2 clubs to meet the same testing arrangements as anyone else. That's acting and ensuring a level playing field for all clubs.  Why didn't they do that?

I'm   guessing  that wouldn't have gone far enough. Rightly or wrongly SG wanted more.

[Arnold Layne]

39 minutes ago, virginton said:

Erm yes, that was precisely my point champ. As the top two leagues are professional, footballers and staff are free to travel to and from their place of work. Travelling to a place of work of any kind is an essential reason, if it cannot be done from home. As the rest of Scottish football down to the East of Scotland conferences is not professional, then it is not a genuine place of work and so training and travelling across the country to play their matches are not legitimate exemptions.

That's the line that has quite clearly been drawn and it has got nothing to do with safety or testing protocols. 

I published the ScotGov guidance a few posts ago. You  should read it. Or, if  you have read it, have another go at understanding  it. The guidance makes no distinction between essential and non-essential work. It also makes distinction between full-time and part-time work. Under the guidance part-time workers, be they hospital staff or footballers, are allowed to travel to work.

It is the SFA that have drawn an arbitrary line. No attempt at obfuscation or condescension on your part can hide the fact that you are wrong.

[craigkillie]

Semi-pro football is a part-time job.  The rules allowing travel to a place of work do not distinguish between full- and part-time work.
A part-time footballer is no different from anyone else with a part-time job, often in addition to another full-time or part-time one.

A part-time footballer is legally entitled to travel to their workplace, absolutely, just like someone who works part-time in their local pub is allowed to travel to their workplace. However, in both cases that workplace is currently closed to reduce the spread of covid. In the case of the footballer, the fact that they are part-time is a contributory factor as to why it is closed.

[Newbornbairn]

2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I'm   guessing  that wouldn't have gone far enough. Rightly or wrongly SG wanted more.

Oh, you're guessing. You don't know that SG wanted more so you're making that up.

 

My "guess" is they shat themselves in a blind panic after the Celtic jolly hit the headlines and they massively overreacted.

[Newbornbairn]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

A part-time footballer is legally entitled to travel to their workplace, absolutely, just like someone who works part-time in their local pub is allowed to travel to their workplace. However, in both cases that workplace is currently closed to reduce the spread of covid. In the case of the footballer, the fact that they are part-time is a contributory factor as to why it is closed.

But by that analogy, Arbroath and Alloa being allowed to continue is like saying some pubs could continue. PT football is either dangerous or it's not.

[Guest The Phoenix]

43 minutes ago, virginton said:

The SFA stopped football before the government took the matter out of its hands

There is ZERO evidence to support that assertion 

Edited February 27, 2021 by The Phoenix

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

Oh, you're guessing. You don't know that SG wanted more so you're making that up.

 

My "guess" is they shat themselves in a blind panic after the Celtic jolly hit the headlines and they massively overreacted.

My guess is informed by what we've been told on here and what actually happened.

 

Eta. Can someone who knows tell us?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Sergeant Wilson

[Arnold Layne]

8 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

And football outside the top two tiers is also restricted for similar reasons. Thanks for proving my point.

The government has made distinctions for parts of the retail and hospitality industries which they consider essential. Similarly, there is currently a distinction between the top two tiers and part-time or recreational football below that.

Dear me. There is no distinction between essential and non-essential work. You have just quoted the government guidance so I assume you have read it.

The government has not made judgments based on whether work is essential. It has made judgement based on assessment of risk to the safety of the population. That is an entirely different matter.

[vikingTON]

19 minutes ago, Arnold Layne said:

I published the ScotGov guidance a few posts ago. You  should read it. Or, if  you have read it, have another go at understanding  it. The guidance makes no distinction between essential and non-essential work.

I'm not making a distinction between essential and non-essential work either. The question is whether travel counts as a work purpose and whether you like it or not, the SG believes that a plumber travelling from Annan to Elgin to play football on a Saturday and pick up a supplemental wage is not a real work purpose in the middle of a national lockdown. A decision that I agree with, given the farcical exemption for every brickies' team in the land while the Central Belt was in near full-lockdown back in November. 

Quote

 It also makes distinction between full-time and part-time work. Under the guidance part-time workers, be they hospital staff or footballers, are allowed to travel to work.

Not when the part-time leagues are suspended because the government sees absolutely zero need for them to be operating and travelling during a national lockdown. Whereas a hospital is very much still up and running. 

Quote

It is the SFA that have drawn an arbitrary line. No attempt at obfuscation or condescension on your part can hide the fact that you are wrong.

The 'arbitrary' - also completely straightforward and correct - line has been drawn by the government. Which is why your leagues are not going to restart without government giving the green light. That the SFA chose to jump to this call before it was pushed to do so is ultimately irrelevant. It is a government restriction.

If people genuinely believe that semi-professional football deserves an elite sport exemption - so that every tier down to the East, South of Scotland leagues swan around the country in the middle of a stay at home lockdown - then that's your own view. I find that idea utterly risible though and I strongly suspect that the SG has now recognised that it's not going to wash with its draconian restrictions on every other part of life right now. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

8 minutes ago, The Phoenix said:

There is ZERO evidence to support that ascertain. 

Then why couldn't the SFA and the clubs meet either on Thursday or yesterday to establish a way forward? If it was the SFA's sole decision to suspend football then it is their sole right to reverse course and restart it. But somehow they couldn't.

The fact football cannot restart below the Championship without SG support confirms exactly where the real decision-making power lies here. You'd have to be utterly gullible to take any other view. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[Newbornbairn]

7 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

My guess is informed by what we've been told on here and what actually happened.

And my guess is informed by what we've been told on here and what actually happened.

 

So there !

[craigkillie]

Dear me. There is no distinction between essential and non-essential work. You have just quoted the government guidance so I assume you have read it.
The government has not made judgments based on whether work is essential. It has made judgement based on assessment of risk to the safety of the population. That is an entirely different matter.

I haven't once said there was a legal distinction between essential and non-essential work. What I have said is that the government has clearly made a distinction both between and within industries as to what is allowed and/or required to stay open.

Supermarkets and full-time football leagues are allowed to, clothes shops and part-time leagues are currently not.

Even if this is not legally defined in terms of "essential" and "non-essential", in practical terms it's exactly what they're saying.

[Guest The Phoenix]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

Then why couldn't the SFA and the clubs meet either on Thursday or yesterday to establish a way forward? If it was the SFA's sole decision to suspend football then it is their sole right to reverse course and restart it. But somehow they couldn't.

The fact football cannot restart below the Championship without SG support confirms exactly where the real decision-making power lies here. You'd have to be utterly gullible to take any other view. 

Because the point you’re trying to make now is different from the point you were making originally.

There is NO evidence that the SFA suspended football below the Championship to prevent the Government taking matters out of their hands.  

The fact the SFA did suspend football below the Championship resulted in the SG having an open door to walk through. 

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, The Phoenix said:

Because the point you’re trying to make now is different from the point you were making originally.

There is NO evidence that the SFA suspended football below the Championship to prevent the Government taking matters out of their hands.  

The fact the SFA did suspend football below the Championship resulted in the SG having an open door to walk through. 

The fact that the SFA can't simply drop its suspension without Clownshoes Leitch and the guys giving them the green light confirms that this is not actually the case. We really don't need a second Pentagon Papers to come out to work out that the Cabinet Minister for Sport or another government official got on the blower to Hampden and expressed their deepest hope that Scottish football would adopt an appropriate response to the worsening public health situation.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

The fact that the SFA can't simply drop its suspension without Clownshoes Leitch and the guys giving them the green light confirms that this is not actually the case. We really don't need a second Pentagon Papers to come out to work out that the Cabinet Minister for Sport or another government official got on the blower to Hampden and expressed their deepest hope that Scottish football would adopt an appropriate response to the worsening public health situation.

But he is right, there is no evidence of it. At least none that we can access.

Unless you count the actual suspension as evidence.

 

[Arnold Layne]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

I'm not making a distinction between essential and non-essential work either. The question is whether travel counts as a work purpose and whether you like it or not, the SG believes that a plumber travelling from Annan to Elgin to play football on a Saturday and pick up a supplemental wage is not a real work purpose in the middle of a national lockdown. A decision that I agree with, given the farcical exemption for every brickies' team in the land while the Central Belt was in near full-lockdown back in November. 

Not when the part-time leagues are suspended because the government sees absolutely zero need for them to be operating and travelling during a national lockdown. Whereas a hospital is very much still up and running. 

The 'arbitrary' - also completely straightforward and correct - line has been drawn by the government. Which is why your leagues are not going to restart without government giving the green light. That the SFA chose to jump to this call before it was pushed is ultimately irrelevant. It is a government restriction.

If people genuinely believe that semi-professional football deserves an elite sport exemption - so that every tier down to the East, South of Scotland leagues swan around the country in the middle of a stay at lockdown - then that's your own view. I find that idea utterly risible though and I strongly suspect that the SG has now recognised that it's not going to wash with its draconian restrictions on every other part of life right now. 

As  a ScotGov representative, perhaps you could let us know how far a plumber is allowed to travel to play football and  pick up a supplemental wage. Alloa to Inverness is ok?

When discussing Scottish football, can we please stop calling it elite sport. That's laughable.