Null & Void or an 18 Game Season?

[roman_bairn]

If I was a full time club wanting to play football I would simply ensure I was playing in a full time league 

That’s funny.

[falkirkthebigclub]

12 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

If I was a full time club wanting to play football I would simply ensure I was playing in a full time league 

If I was a club looking to build on my proud European history, I would at least try to finish in the fucking top 6, mate.

[Bluegrass Bairn]

It is indeed all about necessity to travel... The necessity for Aberdeen's elite squad to go bevvying on Union Street,  Celtic's elite squad to go bevvying in Dubai, Rangers' elite squad to go bevvying at a house party in Finnieston, the necessity for SFA officials to travel to Greece to take charge of European ties as they apparently don't have their own referees there, while part-time firemen, polis, plumbers and delivery drivers in League 1 teams can't be trusted to behave themselves and follow protocols, like the... erm... elite do.  Bravo. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Dennistoun Bairn

[Jan Vojáček]

17 minutes ago, virginton said:

For the majority of players outside the top two divisions, it is not a primary source of income. They are not professional. Their travel is therefore not necessary. 

One level is a professional league where the majority are travelling for work, the other is semi professional where they are travelling for a glorified hobby.

It's not about the safety of travel, it's about the necessity of travel. If you think that it is necessary for Scottish League One clubs to lollop around the country for no pressing purpose in the middle of a stay at home lockdown when people are being fined for sitting on a fucking park bench and talking to someone too long. then you're delusional quite frankly.

Still not grasping that it's a) about necessary travel not the safety of activities and b) if we're setting what was allowed in October as our benchmark for what to restart now then I'll have freedom of travel, the right to meet multiple households outside and a crisp pint over Dumbarton v East Fife' every day of the week.

If we're talking about what's necessary then is Morton playing Inverness necessary? Would we not be better just furloughing every player in the country? It's not like they're performing lifesaving heart surgery or keeping us fed here. Football, as a whole, is not essential nor necessary. Even if it is a full-time job for players.

I've got no issue with measures being put in place that will have an impact on figures, leading to less hospitalisations and less deaths. And I think given we're both on a similar page with that on the Covid thread.

I can't see letting Leagues One and Two train and play having any impact whatsoever on either of those things. Especially when players are being tested every week.

Travelling shouldn't really have any impact on it. It's not like Ryan McGeever is travelling from Glasgow to Peterhead via a couple of overnight stays on the way up and a night out in Aberdeen. He'll be papped on a bus or be in his car, drive up, play football and drive home. Just as he would've done in November when Sons lost at Balmoor and the infection rate was higher. 

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

It is indeed all about necessity to travel... The necessity for Aberdeen's elite squad to go bevvying on Union Street,   Celtic's elite squad to go bevvying in Dubai, Rangers' elite squad to go bevvying at a house partying in Finnieston, the necessity for SFA officials to take charge of European ties as they apparently don't have their own referees in Greece,  while part-time firemen, polis, plumbers and delivery drivers in League 1 teams can't be trusted to behave themselves and follow protocols, like the... erm... elite do.  Bravo. 

Started your birthday caird pish tirade by accepting the premise that it's 'necessity' based. Predictably veered into braying about 'behaviour' and 'protocols' that are completely irrelevant to the decision to put the lower leagues on ice.

Swing and a miss then.

[Bluegrass Bairn]

Just now, virginton said:

Started your birthday caird pish tirade by accepting the premise that it's 'necessity' based. Predictably veered into braying about 'behaviour' and 'protocols' that are completely irrelevant to the decision to put the lower leagues on ice.

Swing and a miss then.

Rattled...

[bairn88]

2 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

If we're talking about what's necessary then is Morton playing Inverness necessary? Would we not be better just furloughing every player in the country? It's not like they're performing lifesaving heart surgery or keeping us fed here. Football, as a whole, is not essential nor necessary. Even if it is a full-time job for players.

I've got no issue with measures being put in place that will have an impact on figures, leading to less hospitalisations and less deaths. And I think given we're both on a similar page with that on the Covid thread.

I can't see letting Leagues One and Two train and play having any impact whatsoever on either of those things. Especially when players are being tested every week.

Travelling shouldn't really have any impact on it. It's not like Ryan McGeever is travelling from Glasgow to Peterhead via a couple of overnight stays on the way up and a night out in Aberdeen. He'll be papped on a bus or be in his car, drive up, play football and drive home. Just as he would've done in November when Sons lost at Balmoor and the infection rate was higher. 

The “travelling” argument is absolutely batshit crazy from Leitch imo. What difference is say Edinburgh to Glasgow than dumfries to Aberdeen is? 

As you say they get in a car/distanced bus. They drive to the ground. They play football at a stadium. They get back in then drive back. 

Unless Covid has developed the ability to jump into cars from the outdoors, thus making a longer journey worse, it has literally zero credibility. And he gets away with that shite

[vikingTON]

15 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

If we're talking about what's necessary then is Morton playing Inverness necessary? Would we not be better just furloughing every player in the country? It's not like they're performing lifesaving heart surgery or keeping us fed here. Football, as a whole, is not essential nor necessary. Even if it is a full-time job for players.

It's necessary for those professional footballers to complete their job, yes. In a way that League One football and below does not tick the fundamental criteria for essential travel for work purposes in Scotland right now.

None of the leagues below the Premiership should have started in the first place and you'd get zero complaints from me if they had canned it then or did so now. 

Quote

 

I've got no issue with measures being put in place that will have an impact on figures, leading to less hospitalisations and less deaths. And I think given we're both on a similar page with that on the Covid thread.

I can't see letting Leagues One and Two train and play having any impact whatsoever on either of those things. Especially when players are being tested every week. Travelling shouldn't really have any impact on it. It's not like Ryan McGeever is travelling from Glasgow to Peterhead via a couple of overnight stays on the way up and a night out in Aberdeen. He'll be papped on a bus or be in his car, drive up, play football and drive home. Just as he would've done in November when Sons lost at Balmoor and the infection rate was higher.

 

Quote

 

I don't see how me going hillwalking in Galloway or Arran tomorrow would overwhelm the health service but it's non-essential travel and therefore prohibited. There's no valid reason for semi-professional football clubs all the way down to the East of Scotland Conferences to get a magical 'elite sport' exemption, while the police are literally slapping fines on people for travelling to the next town down on public transport without an essential purpose because of a mainland-wide stay at home order.

It would be a complete and utter joke, would undermine the SG's IMO draconian but ultimately unchallenged lockdown and so it really shouldn't be happening. The situation in November when large parts of the Central Belt were restricted from leaving their local authority area while glorified Junior clubs and their committee men were heading all over their region for games was an absolute joke. It was only a matter of time until the SG brought it back into line with the rest of society and that's still where we are now.

Edited February 26, 2021 by vikingTON

[Guest The Phoenix]

20 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's necessary for those professional footballers to complete their job, yes. In a way that League One football and below does not tick the fundamental criteria for essential travel for work purposes in Scotland right now.

None of the leagues below the Premiership should have started in the first place and you'd get zero complaints from me if they had canned it then or did so now. 

 

I don't see how me going hillwalking in Galloway or Arran tomorrow would overwhelm the health service but it's non-essential travel and therefore prohibited. There's no valid reason for semi-professional football clubs all the way down to the East of Scotland Conferences to get a magical 'elite sport' exemption, while the police are literally slapping fines on people for travelling to the next town down on public transport without an essential purpose because of a mainland-wide stay at home order.

It would be a complete and utter joke, would undermine the SG's IMO draconian but ultimately unchallenged lockdown and so it really shouldn't be happening. The situation in November when large parts of the Central Belt were restricted from leaving their local authority area while glorified Junior clubs and their committee men were heading all over their region for games was an absolute joke. It was only a matter of time until the SG brought it back into line with the rest of society and that's still where we are now.

The SFA acted before the SG.  

[Jan Vojáček]

27 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's necessary for those professional footballers to complete their job, yes. In a way that League One football and below does not tick the fundamental criteria for essential travel for work purposes in Scotland right now.

None of the leagues below the Premiership should have started in the first place and you'd get zero complaints from me if they had canned it then or did so now. 

I don't see how me going hillwalking in Galloway or Arran tomorrow would overwhelm the health service but it's non-essential travel and therefore prohibited. There's no valid reason for semi-professional football clubs all the way down to the East of Scotland Conferences to get a magical 'elite sport' exemption, while the police are literally slapping fines on people for travelling to the next town down on public transport without an essential purpose because of a mainland-wide stay at home order.

It would be a complete and utter joke, would undermine the SG's IMO draconian but ultimately unchallenged lockdown and so it really shouldn't be happening. The situation in November when large parts of the Central Belt were restricted from leaving their local authority area while glorified Junior clubs and their committee men were heading all over their region for games was an absolute joke. It was only a matter of time until the SG brought it back into line with the rest of society and that's still where we are now.

It's necessary for professional footballers to complete their job, yes. But is it essential? E.g it's essential for someone who works in Primark to be in store to complete their job. But that's not classed as essential, so the shop is closed and they are furloughed.

We're not talking about the EoSFL, WoSFL or whatever else here. And I agree with you that restarting them now would be a questionable in the extreme. But when clubs are offering to test their players weekly (and have all agreed to that) then it shouldn't pose any more of a risk than the games that are allowed to go ahead continuing to happen. The rules should be clear; if you have a full league that can follow the testing protocols followed by 'elite' Premiership and Championship clubs, then that league should be allowed to go ahead. 

[vikingTON]

34 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

It's necessary for professional footballers to complete their job, yes. But is it essential? E.g it's essential for someone who works in Primark to be in store to complete their job. But that's not classed as essential, so the shop is closed and they are furloughed.

The reason why their workplace is closed is to limit public interaction to a society-eife minimum: if that were not the case then they would have full freedom to travel to their place of work. Schools were not deemed safe and/or worthwhile enough to open until this week - now that they are though, all employees have a right to travel to that place of work. That's the only essential part of the criteria that professional football has to justify, given the zero credible public health risk of actually playing matches.

Quote

We're not talking about the EoSFL, WoSFL or whatever else here. And I agree with you that restarting them now would be a questionable in the extreme.

Well no we are talking about those leagues because they were part of the same elite sport exemption, that has since been wrapped up to the top two men's tiers only. Or does the 'it poses no real risk to the NHS' argument only apply to leagues that you're invested in now?

If it's okay for Dumbarton to play then it's okay for Kelty or Clydebank to play by the exact same token.

Quote

But when clubs are offering to test their players weekly (and have all agreed to that) then it shouldn't pose any more of a risk than the games that are allowed to go ahead continuing to happen. The rules should be clear; if you have a full league that can follow the testing protocols followed by 'elite' Premiership and Championship clubs, then that league should be allowed to go ahead. 

The decision has got absolutely nothing to do with testing protocols though and you'd think that after seeing this gesture consistently dinghied by the authorities League One fans might eventually understand this. It's about what is considered essential travel to a legitimate places of work and what is not. You could promise to test every single day and it wouldn't make a difference. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by vikingTON

[Arnold Layne]

4 hours ago, virginton said:

It's necessary for those professional footballers to complete their job, yes. In a way that League One football and below does not tick the fundamental criteria for essential travel for work purposes in Scotland right now.

None of the leagues below the Premiership should have started in the first place and you'd get zero complaints from me if they had canned it then or did so now. 

 

I don't see how me going hillwalking in Galloway or Arran tomorrow would overwhelm the health service but it's non-essential travel and therefore prohibited. There's no valid reason for semi-professional football clubs all the way down to the East of Scotland Conferences to get a magical 'elite sport' exemption, while the police are literally slapping fines on people for travelling to the next town down on public transport without an essential purpose because of a mainland-wide stay at home order.

It would be a complete and utter joke, would undermine the SG's IMO draconian but ultimately unchallenged lockdown and so it really shouldn't be happening. The situation in November when large parts of the Central Belt were restricted from leaving their local authority area while glorified Junior clubs and their committee men were heading all over their region for games was an absolute joke. It was only a matter of time until the SG brought it back into line with the rest of society and that's still where we are now.

There is no distinction made by ScotGov between essential and non-essential work. Anyone can travel to work if they cannot work from home and their workplace has Covid protocols in place. I have been travelling to work since August and my job is not essential.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Arnold Layne said:

There is no distinction made by ScotGov between essential and non-essential work. Anyone can travel to work if they cannot work from home and their workplace has Covid protocols in place. I have been travelling to work since August and my job is not essential.

There clearly has been a distinction made, which is why most staff in hospitality and retail are not currently doing their jobs.

[Bairnardo]

If there is no promotion to/relegation from the championship, how are we defining the work of anyone who cant make the promotion playoffs as being essential?

Going down the "essential work" route for Scottish football is frankly laughable and anyone doing it is doing so from a position of complete dishonesty.

[Newbornbairn]

Quote

Working from home protects the NHS and saves lives. If you are able to work from home, you must do so wherever possible. Under current rules you need to have a reasonable excuse for leaving the house. This only includes going to work if that work cannot be done from home.  https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/

Nothing about essential. 

[Life on Marrs?]

What is it Falkirk fans don't get? Could this be the reason there are more positive cases in their area than anyone else in Scotland? 

Only yesterday, I posted that the top 2 leagues are considered elite, therefore given certain dispensation to continue. Falkirk not in top 2 leagues, so not considered elite! 

[banditjag]

1 hour ago, NewBornBairn said:

Nothing about essential. 

See belowI know it's referencing the international aspect of travel but head to the web site (I couldn't be arsed) and it is the same for local travel within and out with your local council area.

As many have stated, what is essential is the key and as much as I miss football it's not essential at any level yet certain clubs and leagues are playing/travelling so it's down to how those in charge of the country interpret essential I guess.

[bairn88]

2 minutes ago, Life on Marrs? said:

What is it Falkirk fans don't get? Could this be the reason there are more positive cases in their area than anyone else in Scotland? 

Only yesterday, I posted that the top 2 leagues are considered elite, therefore given certain dispensation to continue. Falkirk not in top 2 leagues, so not considered elite! 

When you’re so angry you have to use people dying to try and do a point and laugh funny...

Also your sentence is just ignorant. The top 2 aren’t considered the only ones that are “elite”, otherwise our season wouldn’t have been allowed to start. It wasn’t the gov that stopped our game, it was the SFA, probably not anticipating that the gov would then get involved and needlessly postpone our game for another month or 2. They’ve made a complete bollocks of it and now the gov aren’t answering their calls. Brilliant stuff. 

[bairn88]

3 minutes ago, banditjag said:

See belowI know it's referencing the international aspect of travel but head to the web site (I couldn't be arsed) and it is the same for local travel within and out with your local council area.

As many have stated, what is essential is the key and as much as I miss football it's not essential at any level yet certain clubs and leagues are playing/travelling so it's down to how those in charge of the country interpret essential I guess.

Going to work is considered “essential” in that definition ^

Edited February 27, 2021 by bairn88

[banditjag]

13 minutes ago, bairn88 said:

Going to work is considered “essential” in that definition ^

Only if you can't work from home. It used to be essential work at the start of all this but don't know what terms they are using now. Main point remains though. It doesn't really matter what we think, the kings and queens of corruption will decide.