Alcohol and Football

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

I got arrested and later fined for drinking a can on the way to hampden many years ago. 

My boss (in Wales) could have had me sacked but instead said "what! That's ridiculous. I'd get arrested all the time if that was the law here." 

As with all forms of prohibition, it criminalises people who cause no harm. 

Won't need to worry about that happening again for a while...

[Handsome_Devil]

20 minutes ago, Squonk said:

Collective responsibility already exists in Scottish football via punishments administered in UEFA's various competitions, so the principle of strict liability is already well established in Scotland.

Where it all falls down however, is in UEFA's derisory sanctions, such as the paltry fines regularly dished out to both Rangers and Celtic over the decades in respect of their fans' behaviour. It is difficult to reconcile, on the one hand, the boldness of UEFA in holding the clubs responsible for their fans' behaviour, with the utter futility of issuing meaningless fines that have no impact whatsoever on those fans' behaviour.

To be fair to UEFA, Rangers in particular have had sections of their ground closed in the past as a result of the singing of prohibited songs and other misbehaviour. Unfortunately, even stiffer punishments, such as stadium closures and/or points deductions, are going to be required before the moronic element who ruined yesterday's match have a word with themselves.

Last year, the Scottish Government warned that it would act if the clubs didn't put their house in order. If it becomes clear that the clubs and the SFA/SPFL are only paying lip service to addressing the issue, they might find the issue is taken out of their hands.  

Yes but as you say that exists only through UEFA for European competitions, domestically there is nothing similar because the clubs are vehemently opposed. They don't have a choice in UEFA terms, domestically they can decide and have decided differently.

Motherwell fans have been on the pitch (or at least out the stand) three times in as many months at the start of this year plus there was stuff thrown at Ramsey. We're obviously not as high profile as the Old Firm so there hasn't been a peep of suggestion we should be punished but the club has - publicly at least - done absolutely hee haw about it. You can Google or search Twitter for Alan Burrows' thoughts on the matter.

Now yes, perhaps everyone in Scottish football is truly convinced that collective punishments for individual actions are an affront to justice. Maybe they're even right. But it's undeniable that argument means there is no incentive for clubs to crack down...why would you pick an argument with your paying customers when you don't have to? And - while being stereotypical - the guys throwing stuff and invading the pitch are often probably the guys making the atmosphere which encourages the team, makes the stadium experience better for other fans, gives all kind of social media content etc.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Handsome_Devil
Botched the quote

[AJF]

22 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

I think it's pretty fanciful to expect a significant reduction in binge drinking because you may be able to get one or two before or during the game.

I don't think it would significantly impact binge drinking per se, but I do think it may limit some people from opting for more lethal forms of booze. Plus, it may limit the amount of these bottles being brought in and being used as a projectile.

3 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

You've just described those "mythical" fans who need a drink to see them through a couple of hours. A normal response would surely have been "it's too busy, I'll not bother then. I can have a drink after the game, after all."

One of the main effects of alcohol consumption is a loss of inhibition. In the already emotionally charged state of an attendee at (any) football match, adding alcohol is not going to improve things.

I'm guessing most of the advocates of drinking at the game weren't around before the ban caused by the 1980 Final. Football, yes, but equally Scottish society needs to start behaving like grown-ups when it comes to the country's relationship with alcohol. When you're drinking the likes of Buckfast or other "cost-effective" products, the desire to "enjoy" a drink is shown up for the nonsensical justification of dependence which it undoubtedly is.

Yes, I've lost family members through alcohol misuse. No, I don't have a problem with people drinking, or even getting drunk when their behaviour doesn't impact others.

I'm firmly of the opinion that fans choose to drink during a game rather than need it to see them through. Some may have a dependency, but the vast majority will just be looking to enhance their experience with a drink. The amount of people that do so increases at big matches, which kind of proves that normally they can be fine to go without.

[Alert Mongoose]

I'll stick my hand up here and confess I need a drink going to the football. Though I have to confess I'm not sure I would buy a drink in the ground. I've perfected the volume of alcohol required that will see my sobered up just in time for the final whistle.  I could be wrong but in my uninformed opinion powder is much more responsible for the shite we see at grounds these days.

[invergowrie arab]

99% of the anti-social behaviour I see at the football seems to be cocaine related as far as I can see.

I don't see pints getting sold in the ground having any negative or positive affect on anti-social behaviour. It won't stop people getting on the gack and venoms before the game and it won't turn otherwise Law abiding citizens into £6 Carling fuelled wrecking balls.

It would though be an additional income generator for clubs though and it would put football on a par with every other sport and social activity in the country.

The main problem I can see is clubs barely seem able to have the facilities to cater for a few hundred folk wanting a pie. 

[DA Baracus]

9 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

would though be an additional income generator for clubs though

Would it? Given the costs involved in setting it up and employing and training people, I'd have my doubts. 

How many grounds are set up to cater for it? Having a pish, overpriced pint in a sterile section under a stand where you can't see the game and just need to stand about is hardly appealing. Clubs would need to designate areas for selling it and that would mean having to build new kiosks or use existing ones. Using existing ones would mean having to fire most catering staff as, in my experience, most of the staff are younger folk. They wouldn't be able to work in a kiosk that sells alcohol as they'd be underage. New staff would need to be hired and trained and they'd have to be paid more, since the main reason clubs employ younger folk to work the catering is because they can pay them less.

But where would folk stand around to drink these (pish, overpriced) pints? Some grounds would have space (those with big stands behind the goals mainly, although it could be cramped), but what about others? It's a no go on that basis alone for them. Think Inverness, Ayr, Ross County, Arbroath and even the away areas at Tannadice.

Even for those who have the space, the availability of a pint won't be enough if you just stand around on a concourse with it. Folk going a bit early and having a pint will be fine for some, but is that demographic going to entice enough folk to make it profitable? At grounds like East End where you can get a pint at the ground anyway (via the two bars), why would you walk round a few metres to be charged more for a poorer beer?

Leaving aside the places that have bars at their grounds, once the novelty wears off and folk realise they're standing in a dull concourse with no seating and no screens or music will not appeal. Will it be worth it to the clubs then if they lose money over it for no benefit?

I'm not against it happening at all; I just don't think it would be worth the while of clubs.

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, Merkincher Clach & County said:

 

Great new fashion, get p....d,  go to a football match and shout  obscenities at opposition fans.

Or meet Dundee fans on thill for a scrap!

I  normally go to watch the players on the park trying to score goals.

And people are wondering how the vast majority of football grounds in Scotland are not at capacity every week. 

 

 

It's called multi-tasking. 

You can also shout obscenities at the players too. And the referees.

 

[johnnydun]

1 hour ago, Merkincher Clach & County said:

 

Great new fashion, get p....d,  go to a football match and shout  obscenities at opposition fans.

Or meet Dundee fans on thill for a scrap!

I  normally go to watch the players on the park trying to score goals.

And people are wondering how the vast majority of football grounds in Scotland are not at capacity every week. 

 

 

People being pished at the football is not why grounds are not at capacity every week.

Shouting obscenities at opposition fans is something that I quite enjoy with our game, it's harmless one-up-manship. Show me a fan who has not done this in a Premiership game. This has also nothing to do with being pished.

Fuckin shite you come away with.

[invergowrie arab]

27 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Would it? Given the costs involved in setting it up and employing and training people, I'd have my doubts. 

How many grounds are set up to cater for it? Having a pish, overpriced pint in a sterile section under a stand where you can't see the game and just need to stand about is hardly appealing. Clubs would need to designate areas for selling it and that would mean having to build new kiosks or use existing ones. Using existing ones would mean having to fire most catering staff as, in my experience, most of the staff are younger folk. They wouldn't be able to work in a kiosk that sells alcohol as they'd be underage. New staff would need to be hired and trained and they'd have to be paid more, since the main reason clubs employ younger folk to work the catering is because they can pay them less.

But where would folk stand around to drink these (pish, overpriced) pints? Some grounds would have space (those with big stands behind the goals mainly, although it could be cramped), but what about others? It's a no go on that basis alone for them. Think Inverness, Ayr, Ross County, Arbroath and even the away areas at Tannadice.

Even for those who have the space, the availability of a pint won't be enough if you just stand around on a concourse with it. Folk going a bit early and having a pint will be fine for some, but is that demographic going to entice enough folk to make it profitable? At grounds like East End where you can get a pint at the ground anyway (via the two bars), why would you walk round a few metres to be charged more for a poorer beer?

Leaving aside the places that have bars at their grounds, once the novelty wears off and folk realise they're standing in a dull concourse with no seating and no screens or music will not appeal. Will it be worth it to the clubs then if they lose money over it for no benefit?

I'm not against it happening at all; I just don't think it would be worth the while of clubs.

Thr clubs who can make it work can do it and those can't don't have to is the simple answer to that. 

[Bairnardo]

Thr clubs who can make it work can do it and those can't don't have to is the simple answer to that. 

Yeah. Most of the arguments against dont stand up to "fans/clubs should be free to make their own choice".

I don't know what it is about issues like this where people make the argument that X wouldn't be very good anyway when the actual discussion is about whether X should be a criminal offence.

[invergowrie arab]

"Pish overpriced pints" is the mark of an absolute bore too. Nobody is impressed that you think Carling is shite, we all think Carling is shite.

I also think 2.50 for instant Kenco is shite but don't feel the need to keep going on about it. 

[johnnydun]

When Dundee build their new stadium (yeah, yeah), there is a plan to have a pub/bar as part of the complex, is this going to be allowed open on match days?

Edited April 4, 2022 by johnnydun

[Crawford]

2 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

When Dundee build there new stadium (yeah, yeah), their is a plan to have a pub/bar as part of the complex, is this going to be allowed open on match days?

I'd imagine so. Especially seeing as Dundee FC would be technically tenants at nou campy and DBPH that owns it being a different entity.

Not the club selling alcohol.

[invergowrie arab]

3 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

When Dundee build their new stadium (yeah, yeah), their is a plan to have a pub/bar as part of the complex, is this going to be allowed open on match days?

Yes but would need to shut when the match is on. 

[Jacky1990]

Angry, violent idiots will still be angry, violent idiots regardless if the alcohol ban in stadiums is lifted or not.

Bit it is fanciful to think that people will suddenly respect their alcohol intake more and drink less (or drink weaker alcohol) before games if the offer is there to have a pint or 4 during the game itself.

There is a huge wider social issue in Scotland around our relationship with alcohol and drugs. Behaviour at football just puts a spotlight on that.

From my own experiences, I drink a bottle of Buckfast (judge away) before most Scotland games because I live within walking distance to the stadium and prefer being a bit merry watching the football. If the stadium ban was lifted, I'd still have that bottle of wine but would just have the option to have extra booze at the games.

[DA Baracus]

7 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Thr clubs who can make it work can do it and those can't don't have to is the simple answer to that. 

Maybe. But I was pointing out that there are challenges to this and wouldn't be surprised 

3 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

"Pish overpriced pints" is the mark of an absolute bore too. Nobody is impressed that you think Carling is shite, we all think Carling is shite.

I also think 2.50 for instant Kenco is shite but don't feel the need to keep going on about it. 

One post = keep going on about it? You'll need to explain that one please. Also, you'll need to explain how not liking poor overpriced pints makes someone a bore.

I never once mentioned Carling. Your comment about people being impressed is bizarre. Why on earth would I try to impress strangers online by saying I don't like a beer? Do you go on the 'What are you drinking' thread and tell everyone that you aren't impressed by the beers they like? Odd.

Also I need to reiterate here that I have said I am not against it at all. 

[Nowhereman]

5 hours ago, Steve McQueen said:

I dont think there should be drinking during the game but pre/post game when people may choose to have a drink anyway.

Get people in the ground early & take their money that they're already spending into the club. I know not every club would be able to do this due to space etc.

Cut down on congestion when everyone tuns up at 10 minutes before ko too.

But clubs can do that. there are plenty of grounds with a bar where you can buy drink before and after a game.

[invergowrie arab]

2 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Maybe. But I was pointing out that there are challenges to this and wouldn't be surprised 

One post = keep going on about it? You'll need to explain that one please. Also, you'll need to explain how not liking poor overpriced pints makes someone a bore.

I never once mentioned Carling. Your comment about people being impressed is bizarre. Why on earth would I try to impress strangers online by saying I don't like a beer? Do you go on the 'What are you drinking' thread and tell everyone that you aren't impressed by the beers they like? Odd.

Also I need to reiterate here that I have said I am not against it at all. 

Not everything is about you.

It's an oft repeated trope in these discussions about overpriced watered down pish.

[Steve_Wilkos]

[DA Baracus]

9 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Not everything is about you.

It's an oft repeated trope in these discussions about overpriced watered down pish.

And the other parts?