Time to go Steve Clarke

[Monkey Tennis]

4 hours ago, forameus said:

 

I expect in September, after four points in three games, we'll see the same jumps.  Claims that we should be topping the group, alongside ones that still think we'll finish bottom.  

You've been coming out with this stuff for a couple of days now and sorry, but I still think it's nonsense.

I'm not seeing people claiming we should be topping our WC group at all.

 

The fact is that it's absolutely right and proper that we should be aiming to qualify for tournaments.  We're a football daft country with a huge heritage in the game.  Now that early start went a long way to explaining our relative strength throughout most of the 20th century.  Its impact has unsurprisingly worn off in recent decades though. 

That means it's probably unrealistic to expect us to be ever present at these tournaments any more, but it does mean it's probably not greedy to expect not to go almost quarter of a century without gracing them either.

I'm sick and tired of anyone who expresses dissatisfaction with Scotland's latest elimination being treated as ignorant, naive or entitled.   Some of us know our stuff, go back a while and have a decent handle on our current station as well as historic shifts.  It's perfectly possible to be in that position yet feel scunnered in a way that's entirely rational.

[John Lambies Doos]

Not yet. Should be given the chance to get to the World Cup. If we get to the World Cup he should be given a knight hood. If we get second in the group and miss out in the playoffs he should be given another campaign.
If we finish third he should be sacked.

Agree

[Lex]

Spot on regarding our World Cup qualification chances.
It's driving me mad when people talk about hoping we qualify, without acknowledging how unlikely it is, given the lousy start we've already made.

Winning the group is probably gone. We will likely need to beat Denmark home and away if we are going to do that, they don’t look like dropping points elsewhere. The chances of us doing that are slim to none.
Second spot is achievable. Austria aren’t up to much and we are certainly capable of getting something in Vienna. Win there (assuming we win all our remaining games against Israel, Faroes and Moldova) and we will be in the driving seat, draw and we hope they drop points elsewhere, as we have already done. Lose and it’s goodnight… Vienna.
Playoff route is tougher than it used to be though. It gets us into a four way playoff similar to the one we won to get to Euro 2020, one team from four gets to the World Cup. One off semi and then a one off final. Will likely have to beat a much higher quality of opponent than Israel and Serbia right enough.

[Pie Of The Month]

The playoffs for the tournament where 13 European teams qualify will be much tougher than the ones for the tournament where 24 qualify? Who'd have thought?

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Pie Of The Month

[2426255]

41 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm sick and tired of anyone who expresses dissatisfaction with Scotland's latest elimination being treated as ignorant, naive or entitled.   Some of us know our stuff, go back a while and have a decent handle on our current station as well as historic shifts.  It's perfectly possible to be in that position yet feel scunnered in a way that's entirely rational.

Aye, It's one thing feeling scunnered. It's the changing manager part that's irrational and emotional.  

[forameus]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You've been coming out with this stuff for a couple of days now and sorry, but I still think it's nonsense.

I'm not seeing people claiming we should be topping our WC group at all.

 

The fact is that it's absolutely right and proper that we should be aiming to qualify for tournaments.  We're a football daft country with a huge heritage in the game.  Now that early start went a long way to explaining our relative strength throughout most of the 20th century.  Its impact has unsurprisingly worn off in recent decades though. 

That means it's probably unrealistic to expect us to be ever present at these tournaments any more, but it does mean it's probably not greedy to expect not to go almost quarter of a century without gracing them either.

I'm sick and tired of anyone who expresses dissatisfaction with Scotland's latest elimination being treated as ignorant, naive or entitled.   Some of us know our stuff, go back a while and have a decent handle on our current station as well as historic shifts.  It's perfectly possible to be in that position yet feel scunnered in a way that's entirely rational.

You've not seen it, I have. Particularly on reddit. Do you really find it that hard to believe?

I never said we shouldn't be *aiming* to qualify. I hope we never get to the point where we're that much of a Diddy team. But there's a big difference between an aim and certain expectations. In 10 games anything can happen, we could get lucky, but World Cups remain a real outside shot for us. 

And yet in a few months time when we inevitably fall short, are we going to get majority sober, level headed discussions about where we are? Or are we going to get similar threads like this, talk of ripping it up and starting again, and the usual knee jerk stuff? Being scunnered by a pretty pish performance is likely where the majority are at, me included. But that doesn't equal burning everything to the ground every couple of years.

[woof!]

What’s frustrating is we never took the gloves off. I said pre-tournament we needed to take risks because sticking with our stuffy format would not be enough. We went out with a whimper. Gilmour and Patterson should have played in the first game and we should have gone with a 4-5-1. We just let the opposition play and it was extremely frustrating to watch. Where was Ryan Fraser? His stats are superb recently for us. Two up front was a Sunday league kop out. We have good players and we barely used them. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by woof!

[craigkillie]

What’s frustrating is we never took the gloves off. I said pre-tournament we needed to take risks because sticking with our stuffy format would not be enough. We went out with a whimper. Gilmour and Patterson should have played in the first game and we should have gone with a 4-5-1. We just let the opposition play and it was extremely frustrating to watch. Where was Ryan Fraser? His stats are superb recently for us. Two up front was a Sunday league kop out. We have good players and we barely used them. 

Fraser hadn't played a game in about 3 months before the tournament.

[2426255]

Look at the Czech team now that people are on here expecting Scotland to be beating.  

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Aye, It's one thing feeling scunnered. It's the changing manager part that's irrational and emotional.  

According to you its irrational to expect to take more than 0 points from 2 home games also. Is everyone who disagrees with you irrational and emotional? What a way to live

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, 2426255 said:

Look at the Czech team now that people are on here expecting Scotland to be beating.  

Playing the Dutch team who we got the better of pre euros. Who are not at home like we were 

[2426255]

Oh, it's getting personal now? is it?

[2426255]

Your logic is hard to follow. 

[RobbieD]

This entire thread is a head ache.

Anyone calling for Clarke’s head is a dafty. That’s it.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, 2426255 said:

Oh, it's getting personal now? is it?

No, its a genuine question. I dont believe that you want Clarke to stay on as manager because you are overly emotional. You just have a different, in my view incorrect opinion.

For me to guess at what motivates this opinion would be ridiculous.

Its is you who is getting personal 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, 2426255 said:

Your logic is hard to follow. 

Its not really, your trying to say because the Czechs won today it proves their miles better than us. They were the second best team until the sending off, and if the Dutch would have been at home I doubt they would have lost.

I'd say the logic that they beat a 10 man team on a neutral ground proves something is harder to follow.

Edited June 27, 2021 by BingMcCrosby

[RobbieD]

4 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Its not really, your trying to say because the Czechs won today it proves their miles better than us. They were the second best team until the sending off, and if the Dutch would have been at home I doubt they would have lost.

I'd say the logic that they beat a 10 man team on a neutral ground proves something is harder to follow.

If my granny had baws, she’d be my grandad.

Being at home during covid has proven to be a myth. When there’s a full house then yeah, MAYBE it’s a factor. When it’s 75% or more empty seats, it’s a different game. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, RobbieD said:

If my granny had baws, she’d be my grandad.

Being at home during covid has proven to be a myth. When there’s a full house then yeah, MAYBE it’s a factor. When it’s 75% or more empty seats, it’s a different game. 

If she had baws she would most likely have lead a completely different life and you may not exist.

Unless you mean she went she was to now start the process of gender reassignment. In which case she could become your grandad. And good luck to her if she decides to do so.

[Monkey Tennis]

10 minutes ago, RobbieD said:

If my granny had baws, she’d be my grandad.

Being at home during covid has proven to be a myth. When there’s a full house then yeah, MAYBE it’s a factor. When it’s 75% or more empty seats, it’s a different game. 

Doesn't the evidence of the BCD  season just ended in Scotland, indicate that home advantage is still as much of a thing?  I thought I saw that somewhere.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

Doesn't the evidence of the BCD  season just ended in Scotland, indicate that home advantage is still as much of a thing?  I thought I saw that somewhere.

Of course it is, i couldn't be bothered arguing it. Your on your own pitch in the surrounding your used to so will obviously feel more at home.

The fans being there will have added to this obvious advantage.