Time to go Steve Clarke

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

You've not seen it, I have. Particularly on reddit. Do you really find it that hard to believe?

I never said we shouldn't be *aiming* to qualify. I hope we never get to the point where we're that much of a Diddy team. But there's a big difference between an aim and certain expectations. In 10 games anything can happen, we could get lucky, but World Cups remain a real outside shot for us. 

And yet in a few months time when we inevitably fall short, are we going to get majority sober, level headed discussions about where we are? Or are we going to get similar threads like this, talk of ripping it up and starting again, and the usual knee jerk stuff? Being scunnered by a pretty pish performance is likely where the majority are at, me included. But that doesn't equal burning everything to the ground every couple of years.

Wouldn't it make more sense to tackle what people are saying on P&B, on er... P&B, than addressing comments you've seen on Reddit? 

I'm seeing very little of the destructive hysteria you seem so eager to challenge.   Calling for the manager's head is not where I'm at personally, but it's a legitimate enough take, given our recent failure.

[RobbieD]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Doesn't the evidence of the BCD  season just ended in Scotland, indicate that home advantage is still as much of a thing?  I thought I saw that somewhere.

Across Europe, Italy was the only league were the percentage of home wins went up over the season. Everywhere else went down.

Also stats showed that refs were more lenient towards away teams than normal. More chances of getting decisions away when crowds aren’t screaming at refs.  

[Monkey Tennis]

16 minutes ago, RobbieD said:

Across Europe, Italy was the only league were the percentage of home wins went up over the season. Everywhere else went down.

Also stats showed that refs were more lenient towards away teams than normal. More chances of getting decisions away when crowds aren’t screaming at refs.  

Fair enough.

Did the home wins drop significantly?  Did they drop by such an extent that home advantage was entirely negated?

That's, of course,before we consider that this tournament is not being conducted behind closed doors.

[RobbieD]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Fair enough.

Did the home wins drop significantly?  Did they drop by such an extent that home advantage was entirely negated?

That's, of course,before we consider that this tournament is not being conducted behind closed doors.

Overall, 2%. 
 

Lower of the table clubs managed to do better way but their home records went down more. The top clubs kept the average from falling more. I think only Manchester United had a worst home win record than the season before from the big clubs across Europe.

[Monkey Tennis]

9 minutes ago, RobbieD said:

Overall, 2%. 
 

Lower of the table clubs managed to do better way but their home records went down more. The top clubs kept the average from falling more. I think only Manchester United had a worst home win record than the season before from the big clubs across Europe.

It's interesting.

When I started looking there, I found articles that said the difference was huge and that home advantage was effectively wiped out.  They were based on figures from before Covid though, when such games were rarer and presumably, usually involved a club receiving a sanction.

In the far bigger sample we've seen recently though, it appears that any shift has been pretty tiny, as suggested here:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/aug/09/home-advantage-fans

 

It seems that when BCD games became familiar and routine, home advantage largely kicked back into place.  That's probably the relevant bit when considering whether home teams should have been at an advantage in the Euros.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Monkey Tennis

[lichtiemike]

Playing the Dutch team who we got the better of pre euros. Who are not at home like we were [emoji849]

We didn’t get the better of the Dutch, it was a draw. [emoji23]

[Gordopolis]

What’s frustrating is we never took the gloves off. I said pre-tournament we needed to take risks because sticking with our stuffy format would not be enough. We went out with a whimper. Gilmour and Patterson should have played in the first game and we should have gone with a 4-5-1. We just let the opposition play and it was extremely frustrating to watch. Where was Ryan Fraser? His stats are superb recently for us. Two up front was a Sunday league kop out. We have good players and we barely used them. 

Spot on.

[Gordopolis]

We didn’t get the better of the Dutch, it was a draw. [emoji23]

Punched well above our weight though, whereas Vs Czechs and Croatia we probably punched at our 4th seed weight. That (i.e
reality) is the disappointment.

Thinking about it, in SC's reign (and in McLeish's before it), I can only think of the Netherlands game, the England draw and the magnificent Serbia playoff win where we hurt appreciably "bigger" sides

[Bing.McCrosby]

7 minutes ago, lichtiemike said:

We didn’t get the better of the Dutch, it was a draw.

What i meant by that was that we were the better team. I didn't think it was hard to work that out, but here we are.

[2426255]

2 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

What i meant by that was that we were the better team. I didn't think it was hard to work that out, but here we are.

Scotland were the better team against the Czech Republic - does that mean we got the better of them too?

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Gordopolis said:

Punched well above our weight though, whereas Vs Czechs and Croatia we probably punched at our 4th seed weight. That (i.e
reality) is the disappointment.

Thinking about it, in SC's reign (and in McLeish's before it), I can only think of the Netherlands game, the England draw and the magnificent Serbia playoff win where we hurt appreciably "bigger" sides

This is what I'm saying man, yes there's been some good games. Yes we look organised and defend and press well for long periods. But were not beating teams we should enough. And were never beating teams we could.

I hope im completely wrong and we go out and play brilliantly away to Denmark and Austria and win one and draw one. And ill be the first to hold up my hands and admit I got it wrong. 

But I just can't see it at all.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, 2426255 said:

Scotland were the better team against the Czech Republic - does that mean we got the better of them too?

Perhaps in your view they were.

How you getting on with your promise of rewatching the Croatia game and telling us what changes Clarke made to change the game?

[2426255]

I haven't re-watched it yet. There are too many live games at the moment and so on that I don't have the time to rewatch the Croatia game atm. How can you say we were the better team against the Netherlands, but not against the Czech Republic?  

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, 2426255 said:

I haven't re-watched it yet. There are too many live games at the moment and so on that I don't have the time to rewatch the Croatia game atm. How can you say we were the better team against the Netherlands, but not against the Czech Republic?  

By watching the games and thinking different things than you

[2426255]

Aye, well your thinking certainly is different - I will say that.

[DukDukGoose]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7451448/steve-clarke-car-crash-euro-2020-unscathed-provan-ride/

Any reason for this particular hit piece?

[craigkillie]

Provan was an utterly miserable c**t in a number of the qualifiers too, probably just doesn't like him.

[Lex]

We have won one competitive game in the last nine, and that was at home to the Faroe Islands.
We are on a dreadful run of form and it’s no surprise questions are being asked of the manager.
Big three games for Clarke in the first week of Sept:
Denmark (a)
Moldova (h)
Austria (a)
We need a bare minimum of five points. Seven or nine is what we really want. Four or less and we’re pretty much out.

[DukDukGoose]

42 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Provan was an utterly miserable c**t in a number of the qualifiers too, probably just doesn't like him.

Seems that way.

The article has a bit of truth about it but it could have been confined to two paragraphs and we'd get the jist.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

12 hours ago, Lex said:

We have won one competitive game in the last nine, and that was at home to the Faroe Islands.
We are on a dreadful run of form and it’s no surprise questions are being asked of the manager.
Big three games for Clarke in the first week of Sept:
Denmark (a)
Moldova (h)
Austria (a)
We need a bare minimum of five points. Seven or nine is what we really want. Four or less and we’re pretty much out.

It's not obvious we are doing well, and it's not obvious we are doing badly.  For every positive aspect, there's a negative reflection and vice versa.

Clarke has been given half a campaign (which very obviously improved), and somehow got a group of misfits through the playoffs and outwith one game, were the better team for the other 5 NL games (again, despite still building a team).

These three games are massive.  There's no chance of winning the group, but a second place remains well within our grasp.  5 points could be just fine but does depend on Austria's results elsewhere (who are perfectly capable of losing to Israel).