Time to go Steve Clarke

[SuperSaints1877]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'll continue calling people who throw a hissy fit and demand resignations after a poor result children, thanks.

Plenty of St Johnstone fans this season. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

I'll continue calling people who throw a hissy fit and demand resignations after a poor result children, thanks.

Im sure you will, go for it!

I was just pointing out the irony in trying to insult people just because they have a different opinion. Especially on something as trivial as football.

It doesn't come off as very mature.

Edited June 5, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Gordopolis said:

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

This comes down to a few children being unable to accept that, every so often, a football team won't play well.

You can surely understand the frustration though: of all the games to fail to turn up for (manager & players).

Theres no frustration from me mate, im a morton and Scotland fan. Disappointment and failure is nothing new to me.

I dont expect Clarke to be sacked or to quit (tho I wish he would)

I just think and it looks like a fair few others do to the future doesn't look positive under him. It looks like Billy Gilmour watching a ball fly over his head.

Can you you not speak to your higher ups in the polis and see if they can put some pressure on?

[Dunning1874]

38 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

The actual group does make a massive difference, though. This was the weakest group we've been lucky enough to been drawn in since that time you mention when we somehow got Lithuania, Faroes, and Iceland as our only competition for a playoff spot. This was our chance largely because the draw gave us that chance. Drawing England and Slovakia or Germany and Poland or Italy and France or Russia, Croatia, and Belgium or Belgium and Russia or Spain and Czech Republic is more difficult than a very good Denmark side and an Austria side who were in disarray. 

Which is not to say that I think Clarke did a bad job of the qualifying campaign - the campaign came good and we got the job done. But we're kidding ourselves if we think that we weren't lucky to draw Austria instead of the likes of Ukraine, Switzerland or Poland. If we want to do the same again and finish in second, then we'll need to either get lucky again or seriously improve. 

I don't think it was an easier group then having Norway and Macedonia for 2010. I also reckon, despite it being a more difficult group overall, Austria and Israel are better teams than the Ireland side Strachan contrived to finish behind.

What's tripped us up consistently for making the playoffs over the last 20 years is dropping points v pot 5 and 6 sides. Clarke has put a stop to that nonsense, while he took 4 points from each of our rivals for second in his first full campaign. We haven't gone through a group with only one defeat since 1998 qualifying. Now we need to build on that, but it bodes well for the next group.

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Plenty of St Johnstone fans this season. 

Yeah, that's a whole seasons worth, not just one game.

[SpoonTon]

8 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

I don't think it was an easier group then having Norway and Macedonia for 2010. I also reckon, despite it being a more difficult group overall, Austria and Israel are better teams than the Ireland side Strachan contrived to finish behind.

What's tripped us up consistently for making the playoffs over the last 20 years is dropping points v pot 5 and 6 sides. Clarke has put a stop to that nonsense, while he took 4 points from each of our rivals for second in his first full campaign. We haven't gone through a group with only one defeat since 1998 qualifying. Now we need to build on that, but it bodes well for the next group.

Contrived to finish 3 points behind a team that took 4 points off world champions Germany?

Clarke had done an infinitely better job than Burley, and that group was certainly one of the weaker groups (along with this one).

[Loominous]

12 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Another 90 min draw and under performance at home added my man, cheers

I just got back to the house and read through this page. I'm quite new and don't want to be disrespectful but you aren't leaving the best first impression if you spin, manipulate or obscure facts because it suits your argument.

[SpoonTon]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

We only lost 1 game in the entire group, and took 16 points out of 18 against the bottom 3 seeds, despite Israel being amongst the strongest of the 4th seeds. Even if we'd had someone like Poland or Ukraine instead of Austria, we'd likely only have had to take 1 or 3 points off them to finish 2nd anyway.

It was a qualifying performance well beyond what we have achieved in two decades. The only reason we weren't in with a shout of actually winning the group was because Denmark wiped the floor with everyone else.

Clarke deserves praise for getting the job done in a way that other Scotland managers haven't. And I'm hoping that he finds a way to be more flexible rather than hoping he leaves. But there's no getting around the fact that this was a weak group (I celebrated getting that group like we'd won a match), and I'm not buying the Israel are a good team stuff. I'm also not convinced that beating Denmark in a match that they treated like a friendly is any better than when we beat Croatia twice and got all excited about that. 

But there are enough positive signs and good results that mean I'm happy with what Clarke had achieved for the most part - even if I'm frustrated with just how wrong he's got things at times. I want to be optimistic, I really do, but I'm finding it tough. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Loominous said:

I just got back to the house and read through this page. I'm quite new and don't want to be disrespectful but you aren't leaving the best first impression if you spin, manipulate or obscure facts because it suits your argument.

I genuinely forgot about the game rather than left it out to suit an agenda. But your welcome to perceive this however you like.

I dont think failing to score at home for 120 mins against isreal would be a blow to my argument anyway. If anything it strengthen it.

[SuperSaints1877]

26 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Yeah, that's a whole seasons worth, not just one game.

Is he the most successful St J manager? Or did the cup double not count as there were no fans there to boo?

[Ray Patterson]

Random Guy is the voice of reason, that's how mental some of you are.

Hope you're happy.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Ray Patterson said:

Random Guy is the voice of reason, that's how mental some of you are.

Hope you're happy.

Thanks for the input.

But personally I'm just going to completely dismiss the opinion of someone who thinks its ok to call people "mental" because they disagree with them.

[lubo_blaha]

Theres no frustration from me mate, im a morton and Scotland fan. Disappointment and failure is nothing new to me.
I dont expect Clarke to be sacked or to quit (tho I wish he would)
I just think and it looks like a fair few others do to the future doesn't look positive under him. It looks like Billy Gilmour watching a ball fly over his head.
Can you you not speak to your higher ups in the polis and see if they can put some pressure on?

If you think that we’ve regularly been playing long ball football with Gilmour in the team then I can only assume you haven’t been watching much of us.

[2426255]

looks like I missed all the fun on here tonight. Is Bing making any headway in his one man mission to rid Scotland of its problem manager? 

Edited June 5, 2022 by 2426255

[Theroadlesstravelled]

2 hours ago, Ray Patterson said:

Random Guy is the voice of reason, that's how mental some of you are.

Hope you're happy.

 

Was he also wanting St Johnstone players picked for Scotland after they won the double?

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Is he the most successful St J manager? Or did the cup double not count as there were no fans there to boo?

Depends how you count success. One off moments or durability.

Callum Davidson was criticised last season because he didn't take last Summers window seriously/didn't strengthen us at our highest point, didn't respond to the loss of key players tactically, constantly blamed the players, tied us to multiple shit players for years because he was lazy, led us to arguably our worst ever result, bullshitted about players to fans (MacPherson is better than McCann apparently), and left us to 11th.

The idea that's comparable to folk demanding Clarke go after a poor result to a team who reached the Euro Quarters last season is insane.

[BFTD]

7 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Thats twice you have misquoted and misinterpreted what I said.

I said vastly better and went into specifics about what should have been better. Not a bit better or a wee bit better.

Again that one game was a world Cup playoff, do you understand?

Its not abnormal in football for managers and players to be judged on their performances in games and tournaments.

Im guessing that like me you weren't involved in sifting thru the applications for the job in recent times. So we don't know what  these similar applications to recent years might look like.

We'd have won if we'd played "vastly" better, so it's very hard not to come away with the impression that you'd have wanted him gone unless we'd qualified, especially having just read your OP. That, and we'd have been changing managers at least every two years for the past few decades by your standards.

The press usually give us a fair idea of the standard of manager who apply for the Scotland job. Apart from Lars Lagerback, I don't remember there being many candidates that people were beeling at having missed out on. David Moyes just got a mention; there were plenty of folk complaining about the idea of him getting the job a few years ago, and it's pretty undeniable that he'd be a step up from every manager we've had in the past 35 years (other than Walter Smith). But he only wants it when his career as a middling Premiership manager has tailed off, which sums up the national team's standing pretty well.

[Guest]

In recent times, Morten Olsen with Denmark and Oscar Tabarez with Uruguay led those respective sides for 15 years. I'd love for Clarke to be our version of that but it's dependent on results, obviously. He got it wrong against Ukraine but hopefully he can achieve Euro 2024 qualification now.

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, FreedomFarter said:

In recent times, Morten Olsen with Denmark and Oscar Tabarez with Uruguay led those respective sides for 15 years. I'd love for Clarke to be our version of that but it's dependent on results, obviously. He got it wrong against Ukraine but hopefully he can achieve Euro 2024 qualification now.

That's the hope, isn't it? Give him time and see if he can reduce the tactical errors. No matter how poorly the players performed, he never quite got the tactics right against Ukraine, and we've had a number of games where we started poorly and needed to change. It's taken players like Grant Hanley quite a while to become solid performers at international level, so maybe some managers have to be treated likewise.

Unless we somehow end up with a nightmare group, you'd think the SFA might start thinking about a change if we can't qualify for Euro 2024, considering the number of places available. That'd make Clarke our longest-serving coach since Craig Brown. Knowing the SFA, they'll probably have extended his contract long before then, though.

[Bing.McCrosby]

55 minutes ago, BFTD said:

We'd have won if we'd played "vastly" better, so it's very hard not to come away with the impression that you'd have wanted him gone unless we'd qualified, especially having just read your OP. That, and we'd have been changing managers at least every two years for the past few decades by your standards.

The press usually give us a fair idea of the standard of manager who apply for the Scotland job. Apart from Lars Lagerback, I don't remember there being many candidates that people were beeling at having missed out on. David Moyes just got a mention; there were plenty of folk complaining about the idea of him getting the job a few years ago, and it's pretty undeniable that he'd be a step up from every manager we've had in the past 35 years (other than Walter Smith). But he only wants it when his career as a middling Premiership manager has tailed off, which sums up the national team's standing pretty well.

Well its all about opinions. But I must say it very much surprised me when you said that we played very very well against ukraine and regardless of any results that Clarke should have a job for life. Its such a wildly inaccurate view.