Kilwinning Rangers 23/24

[ADR]

The truth is we don't deserve to stay in the league, we have the same players working their socks off while others swan around the pitch & the same players making the same mistakes each game but stay in the team, it's like we're hoping that these mistakes will just disappear

We brought in Ally McInnes, he's conceded quite a few goals & at no point can I remember thinking he should have done better with any of those goals!! I also feel quite sorry for young Josh Louden, he's stepped up from 20's & hasn't done much wrong but seems an easy target for some of his team mates, while the experienced heads round about him get an easy ride

As far as I'm concerned out of the squad we have at the moment I'd happily keep a handful & the rest could go today, the ironic thing is Chris Strain would walk into this team   

[Peter Culter]

51 minutes ago, ADR said:

The truth is we don't deserve to stay in the league, we have the same players working their socks off while others swan around the pitch & the same players making the same mistakes each game but stay in the team, it's like we're hoping that these mistakes will just disappear

We brought in Ally McInnes, he's conceded quite a few goals & at no point can I remember thinking he should have done better with any of those goals!! I also feel quite sorry for young Josh Louden, he's stepped up from 20's & hasn't done much wrong but seems an easy target for some of his team mates, while the experienced heads round about him get an easy ride

As far as I'm concerned out of the squad we have at the moment I'd happily keep a handful & the rest could go today, the ironic thing is Chris Strain would walk into this team   

I can’t disagree.

Away against Pollok it could have been seven if Ally hadn’t pulled off a few top saves.

Arthurlie would have been out of sight at half time if it wasn’t for him, too.

Judging by the post-match interviews, maybe a few home truths told in the dressing room last night?

[ADR]

2 hours ago, Peter Culter said:

I can’t disagree.

Away against Pollok it could have been seven if Ally hadn’t pulled off a few top saves.

Arthurlie would have been out of sight at half time if it wasn’t for him, too.

Judging by the post-match interviews, maybe a few home truths told in the dressing room last night?

It did feel like Ben was going to say more last night then remembered he was on camera 

[bigecumnock]

4 hours ago, ADR said:

The truth is we don't deserve to stay in the league, we have the same players working their socks off while others swan around the pitch & the same players making the same mistakes each game but stay in the team, it's like we're hoping that these mistakes will just disappear

We brought in Ally McInnes, he's conceded quite a few goals & at no point can I remember thinking he should have done better with any of those goals!! I also feel quite sorry for young Josh Louden, he's stepped up from 20's & hasn't done much wrong but seems an easy target for some of his team mates, while the experienced heads round about him get an easy ride

As far as I'm concerned out of the squad we have at the moment I'd happily keep a handful & the rest could go today, the ironic thing is Chris Strain would walk into this team   

Went as a neutral to your recent game against Glenafton and agree with your comments about Josh Louden, personally I thought he had a decent game and yes he took some stick from some of the more experienced players, I’m sure he’ll turn out to be a good one.

[Hawf time pie]

Young Josh is a quality player, he`s an easy target for under performing experienced players. Hopefully the management call that out in the dressing room

[funky monkey]

The same treatment was dished out to goalkeeper Ewan Henderson. A young goalie with a very bright future. Made a scapegoat by team mates, management and some supporters during the death throes of Gormley's reign. Experienced players let the youngster down big time and appeared too willing to pass on the burden of responsibility. Never good to see.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

46 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

The same treatment was dished out to goalkeeper Ewan Henderson. A young goalie with a very bright future. Made a scapegoat by team mates, management and some supporters during the death throes of Gormley's reign. Experienced players let the youngster down big time and appeared too willing to pass on the burden of responsibility. Never good to see.

I was watching and reading this thread in past few pages and enjoying it with peoples perceptions of what's gone wrong, what is going wrong and what is going to happen. You are a Kilwinning fan and put your views down and watched other take you on, me thinking it looked like they were trying to change your mind, but you are a Buffs fan and you wont or don't need to change your views, you see it from your fans eyes, what you see and your experience so posts like yourself from fans are insightful, who is to say not always the same as the rest of the fans but insightful right enough.   Whether you think Gormley is to blame is neither here nor there as its just your viewpoint as it is actually hypothetical but would the Buffs be in a worse place or better place if he had stayed, none of us really know but you made a statement about Gormley being at the club a few month.  How the feck can ANY manager make a huge impact changing a team with a lot of players, its hard for any manager, but what I will say is that he should have been given more time and that's my own view from my own experience, nothing will change that

What I will say, Ewan was put in goals because he was trusted and the management knew the potential of this lad.  He was never made a scapegoat, he was brought in knowing he could do a job for the buffs and did well but agreed the lad made mistakes, (part of his development) and maybe the experienced players didn't help or ever tried to blame him but that's on those players.  Every U20s lad, when he goes to the first team, either training, sitting on the bench or playing for the first team, its still part of his development and I know Gormley and some of the coaching staff and when it comes to U20s players, they have never made any youth player coming up as a scapegoat, they try their best to develop and progress these lads to the level expected, hoped for, being first team players, so I will disagree with you regarding that comment from my experience but obviously if there stuff where Gormley makes the lad a scapegoat then that's another matter but i don't expect there to be anything like this and personally I'm that confident if you asked Ewan or Josh, (sure josh played or worked under them), about their experience under Gormley and the coaching staff id expect them to be very complimentary to say the least, I could be wrong about this also but I doubt it

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[funky monkey]

10 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I was watching and reading this thread in past few pages and enjoying it with peoples perceptions of what's gone wrong, what is going wrong and what is going to happen. You are a Kilwinning fan and put your views down and watched other take you on, me thinking it looked like they were trying to change your mind, but you are a Buffs fan and you wont or don't need to change your views, you see it from your fans eyes, what you see and your experience so posts like yourself from fans are insightful, who is to say not always the same as the rest of the fans but insightful right enough.   Whether you think Gormley is to blame is neither here nor there as its just your viewpoint as it is actually hypothetical but would the Buffs be in a worse place or better place if he had stayed, none of us really know but you made a statement about Gormley being at the club a few month.  How the feck can ANY manager make a huge impact changing a team with a lot of players, its hard for any manager, but what I will say is that he should have been given more time and that's my own view from my own experience, nothing will change that

What I will say, Ewan was put in goals because he was trusted and the management knew the potential of this lad.  He was never made a scapegoat, he was brought in knowing he could do a job for the buffs and did well but agreed the lad made mistakes, (part of his development) and maybe the experienced players didn't help or ever tried to blame him but that's on those players.  Every U20s lad, when he goes to the first team, either training, sitting on the bench or playing for the first team, its still part of his development and I know Gormley and some of the coaching staff and when it comes to U20s players, they have never made any youth player coming up as a scapegoat, they try their best to develop and progress these lads to the level expected, hoped for, being first team players, so I will disagree with you regarding that comment from my experience but obviously if there stuff where Gormley makes the lad a scapegoat then that's another matter but i don't expect there to be anything like this and personally I'm that confident if you asked Ewan or Josh, (sure josh played or worked under them), about their experience under Gormley and the coaching staff id expect them to be very complimentary to say the least, I could be wrong about this also but I doubt it

You could well be correct. There would appear to be somebody related in some way to the previous management team, who commented on this thread that the then management team asked for a new goalkeeper and were told to play the u20 goalkeeper by somebody on the committee.

Said person also said to watch the Cumnock highlights, Gormley's last game in charge, to highlight the mistakes Henderson made that night.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

29 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

You could well be correct. There would appear to be somebody related in some way to the previous management team, who commented on this thread that the then management team asked for a new goalkeeper and were told to play the u20 goalkeeper by somebody on the committee.

Said person also said to watch the Cumnock highlights, Gormley's last game in charge, to highlight the mistakes Henderson made that night.

To be honest, I don't know about the comment from other poster, relation etc...  I'm sure you know when I comment on something I believe is untrue or mistaken I will make sure I do, I'm not always right but only a few times loll.   I can only comment on here in regards to football in what I've seen, watched, experienced, not just this year but past years etc... (watched Kilwinning a few times last year and 3 times this season)

My two points, we will never know but only a few months in charge, I think he should have been given longer.  Your comment about making the lad a scapegoat I believe is totally untrue and unfounded but I don't mind being shown facts to have me proved wrong.  The former manager and the coaching staff always endorses youth players and I would even expect the coaching staff were frequent with the Under 20s team on games and even the academy.  Nothing they would want better than seeing a local youth player become a first team start or even star

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[energyzone]

Unless I'm reading it wrong I don't think anyone was saying Gormley and his team was making anyone a scapegoat?  It's the players on the park, a couple on particular, who are very harsh on a couple of the younger players and taking their frustration out on them.  Gormley was very pro-youth but unfortunately I just don't think it was ever going to work out for him.  I think he was affected by the shambles of the tail end of last season and having to build a squad from scratch was always going to be a tough job.

 

As an aside, is Dylan Mackin injured?  

[funky monkey]

31 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

To be honest, I don't know about the comment from other poster, relation etc...  I'm sure you know when I comment on something I believe is untrue or mistaken I will make sure I do, I'm not always right but only a few times loll.   I can only comment on here in regards to football in what I've seen, watched, experienced, not just this year but past years etc... (watched Kilwinning a few times last year and 3 times this season)

My two points, we will never know but only a few months in charge, I think he should have been given longer.  Your comment about making the lad a scapegoat I believe is totally untrue and unfounded but I don't mind being shown facts to have me proved wrong.  The former manager and the coaching staff always endorses youth players and I would even expect the coaching staff were frequent with the Under 20s team on games and even the academy.  Nothing they would want better than seeing a local youth player become a first team start or even star

I'm not sure I agree that Gormley should have been given more time.

I've nothing personal against David, apart from eyeballing the support on occasion he seemed like a thoroughly nice guy who really did want to succeed at the Buffs.

I'm not going to castigate the guy, but there were several things going on which I think meant that the committee were correct to act.

I also accept that it was difficult to build a team given the number of players signed for pre season.

The two biggest issues I have is that the quality of players brought in were simply not of the standard required. The second being the complete inability to recruit a central defender when it was clear from early on that it was a huge problem area for us.

Buffs have nowhere near the biggest budget in the league, but enough to be signing competent players in key positions.

I'm not going to dwell upon the scapegoating of the young goalkeeper.

Funny that a member of the previous management team, a genuinely nice guy, was back at Buffs Park with Gartcairn at the weekend. He was still insisting that the previous management team should have had more time, that whilst his new team were beating the squad that he helped to assemble 4 1 knocking Buffs out of the South Cup.

Remember we'd lost 5 to Clydebank, 6 to Talbot, 6 to Darvel and then 5 to Cumnock. It couldn't continue. The committee have changed it, time will tell if it was the right decision or not, but I've not heard a single Buffs fan say that he shouldn't have went. Plenty saying that Strain shouldn't have went, that's another story though.

[funky monkey]

28 minutes ago, energyzone said:

Unless I'm reading it wrong I don't think anyone was saying Gormley and his team was making anyone a scapegoat?  It's the players on the park, a couple on particular, who are very harsh on a couple of the younger players and taking their frustration out on them.  Gormley was very pro-youth but unfortunately I just don't think it was ever going to work out for him.  I think he was affected by the shambles of the tail end of last season and having to build a squad from scratch was always going to be a tough job.

 

As an aside, is Dylan Mackin injured?  

Dylan is injured. He was watching on last night.

A couple of things. Gormley might have made things a bit easier for himself if he had used the few players that the club had retained, still the best players at the club. The only one he seemed to like initially was TC.

Secondly, it's not easy building a squad but there's plenty managers in the game have to do it and with much less of a budget than Buffs. I had assumed that Gormley and his management team would have had enough good contacts to pull a competitive squad together that wouldn't see us battling relegation. Unfortunately, to my untrained eyes, the signings just weren't good enough for WoSPL level. I wonder what odds you would have got at the beginning of the season on Buffs being relegated?

[Spyro]

2 hours ago, funky monkey said:

The same treatment was dished out to goalkeeper Ewan Henderson. A young goalie with a very bright future. Made a scapegoat by team mates, management and some supporters during the death throes of Gormley's reign. Experienced players let the youngster down big time and appeared too willing to pass on the burden of responsibility. Never good to see.

Happens too often at this level. 

Too many players live off the reputation of 1 or 2 good seasons and think they are untouchable. Some of the things I've heard older, experienced players saying to young lads is disgusting tbh so reading this doesn't surprise me unfortunately. It's especially difficult for young keepers trying to find their feet in the 1st team, and their biggest hurdle is their own teammates/management! 

[peasy23]

Thought it was fairly obvious last night that Buffs had a few players who were struggling big time with knocks even before half time. I know every team would say the same at this time of year but playing Saturday, Monday, Wednesday is an absolute killer.

[funky monkey]

8 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

Thought it was fairly obvious last night that Buffs had a few players who were struggling big time with knocks even before half time. I know every team would say the same at this time of year but playing Saturday, Monday, Wednesday is an absolute killer.

It's a very fair observation. Peasy definitely upped their game second half, but you could visibly see Buffs running out of steam.

Even at 3 1 up, with the way we've being defending, we just knew that it might not be enough.

Aitken obviously reluctant to bring subs in because they were all more or less carrying one injury or another.

No excuses though, Petershill deserved to win the game on the night.

[Benny Factor]

2 hours ago, funky monkey said:

You could well be correct. There would appear to be somebody related in some way to the previous management team, who commented on this thread that the then management team asked for a new goalkeeper and were told to play the u20 goalkeeper by somebody on the committee.

Said person also said to watch the Cumnock highlights, Gormley's last game in charge, to highlight the mistakes Henderson made that night.

Firstly not related to any of the previous management in any way and secondly the reason I asked you to watch the Cumnock game was Cumnock’s first 3 goals were goalkeeping errors whether it be from a 35 year old or 19 year old makes no difference and yet the manager and the defence got your blame. I watch a lot of games at this level and know a lot of people at this level hence the reason I’ve been privy to information that is not necessarily public knowledge all I read was a manager carrying the can for results 3 months after he’s left the club and in my opinion should have been given more support when it was needed.

In my opinion he would have collected  a good few more points than the 6 points that have been gathered in the  9 games since he left considering a number of them were against so called weaker teams at home.

I also see that 3 of the defence that played last night were not his players yet still blamed.

[funky monkey]

10 minutes ago, Benny Factor said:

Firstly not related to any of the previous management in any way and secondly the reason I asked you to watch the Cumnock game was Cumnock’s first 3 goals were goalkeeping errors whether it be from a 35 year old or 19 year old makes no difference and yet the manager and the defence got your blame. I watch a lot of games at this level and know a lot of people at this level hence the reason I’ve been privy to information that is not necessarily public knowledge all I read was a manager carrying the can for results 3 months after he’s left the club and in my opinion should have been given more support when it was needed.

In my opinion he would have collected  a good few more points than the 6 points that have been gathered in the  9 games since he left considering a number of them were against so called weaker teams at home.

I also see that 3 of the defence that played last night were not his players yet still blamed.

2 of the defenders that started last night were Gormley signings I believe.

That's not really the point though. The point is that he made plenty of signings and blew the budget on players who just weren't good enough or didn't work out.

If you had watched the Buffs at any point this season you would have known that central defence was a huge problem.

As it is, the new manager doesn't have the luxury that Gormley had of putting a side together, he's been constrained by having to work with the tools that he's been given.

A couple of things in context, I acknowledge that we've struggled since Chris Strain was dismissed, that was evident in the team we fielded in the West final last season.

Bottom line is, Gormley brought in a number of players who just haven't been good enough and, ultimately, that's why we are where we are. Pep or Jose would struggle to get a tune out of some of them.

Edited April 6, 2023 by funky monkey

[Benny Factor]

2 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

2 of the defenders that started last night were Gormley signings I believe.

That's not really the point though. The point is that he made plenty of signings and blew the budget on players who just weren't good enough or didn't work out.

If you had watched the Buffs at any point this season you would have known that central defence was a huge problem.

As it is, the new manager doesn't have the luxury that Gormley had of putting a side together, he's been constrained by having to work with the tools that he's been given.

A couple of things in context, I acknowledge that we've struggled since Chris Strain was dismissed, that was evident in the team we fielded in the West final last season.

Bottom line is, Gormley brought in a number of players who just haven't been good enough and, ultimately, that's why we are where we are.

I know on a previous post you said you didn’t know about budgets.

I do know that when a budget is set for the season it is divided by roughly 40 weeks at x amount per week which determines players weekly pay budgets are not blown in a oner at the start of the season.

if your weekly wage bill is maxed out to bring another player in you need to get one out the door if your budget is cut then you need to get players out and can’t get anyone else in.

The new boss could have got players out and brought players in unless…….

Hope that helps clear that up.

 

[Thejackdaw]

From the outside looking in david gormley pretty much ended up as a disaster for the buffs and he's one that they're currently struggling to recover from .

[Pyramid Watcher]

3 minutes ago, Thejackdaw said:

From the outside looking in david gormley pretty much ended up as a disaster for the buffs and he's one that they're currently struggling to recover from .

Again from an outside view, it appears that the sacking of Chris Strain was a massive error.