Germany and the Nazis

[SlipperyP]

3 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Thailand was on the same side as Japan but that is seldom mentioned.

IIRC in Japan they were taught that there was a war and then it ended.  No mention of atrocities.

It's a little bit more complicated than that.

The fascist Government of the time was on Japans side, the people were not.  It fact there was a massive Guerrilla war against the Japanese.  Also more Thais died building the Death Railway than any other nationality.  

[Pie Of The Month]

Katja Hoyer talks about this very subject in a podcast which was out this week as long as you can tolerate the fact she's interviewed by Al Murray.

 

 

[bobbykdy]

1 hour ago, Northboy said:

The British have a long fascination with the Hitler era. Due to a leg injury I was signed off work a couple of years ago. Being effectively immobile I spent my days on the couch flicking through the TV channels. As a result I know everything there is to know about buying antiques, restoring houses and the bl@@dy Nazis.

Christ, aye, this. My grandfaither was Polish and a German POW for five years before being liberated and settling here. Result being my dad used to watch a lot of these documentaries, so much so I'd walk into the room and see him watching  another one and go "Is that Hitler invading Poland again? How many times has he done that now? He is a bad b*****d" The humour wasn't always appreciated. 

[pozbaird]

My one and so far only, visit to Germany was to Berlin a few years ago. I thought, with the various museums I visited, this modern German capital city was facing that period in their history head-on. The German history museum was fascinating. So was the terror museum. What struck me most though was that a lot of buildings were still riddled with bullet marks from the war. Would love to go back. Even if it was just for their cake. Feckin’ Berlin should be awarded the world’s best cake award… should such an award exist.

Edited October 29, 2021 by pozbaird

[Mr. Brightside]

14 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Thailand was on the same side as Japan but that is seldom mentioned.

IIRC in Japan they were taught that there was a war and then it ended.  No mention of atrocities.

This reminded me of a great line from Jojo Rabbit: "Our only friends are the Japanese and just between you and me, they don't look very aryan."

[Florentine_Pogen]

My daughter is looking to get into art school. Can’t see her taking rejection very well should they knock her back. 

Princess Pogen started off at ECA before transferring to GSA at the third attempt. This didn't appear to derail her mission to take over the world.

[Florentine_Pogen]

 I worked with a guy who was German, for about 4 years and this conversation did come up.  he was about 20 years younger than me so born early 90's.
He said that they were taught about it in school, but more in a way that they were getting the blame for it even then.  Was also taken to some camps, again getting put on a guilt trip, even though it happened 50 years before they were born.
As for here, they don't have a clue what  happened in WW2, it's been erased from their history.  Few years ago they had a Nazi march in Chiang Mai, all innocent stuff, as it was one of the schools that had the kids all dressed up.

You can buy the full Nazi uniforms in Bangkok markets.

Harry Hewat likes this post.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, bobbykdy said:

Christ, aye, this. My grandfaither was Polish and a German POW for five years before being liberated and settling here. Result being my dad used to watch a lot of these documentaries, so much so I'd walk into the room and see him watching  another one and go "Is that Hitler invading Poland again? How many times has he done that now? He is a bad b*****d" The humour wasn't always appreciated. 

He was lucky - the Poles suffered terribly under the Germans, the vast majority of Polish PoWs died under the Germans, maybe only the Russians suffered worse, and maybe not pro rata.

The Polish government estimated a couple of years ago that the Polish population is about 10,000,000 less than it should be because of the war.

[Florentine_Pogen]

Far more Thais died building the Burmah railway than POWs I believe.

Never noticed Alec Guinness wearing a hippy t-shirt in yon fillum, tbqhwy.

[welshbairn]

42 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

He was lucky - the Poles suffered terribly under the Germans, the vast majority of Polish PoWs died under the Germans, maybe only the Russians suffered worse, and maybe not pro rata.

The Polish government estimated a couple of years ago that the Polish population is about 10,000,000 less than it should be because of the war.

They also suffered a hell of lot under the Russians. They don't take it too kindly us just talking about the suffering of the Jews under the Nazis, plenty Poles died in Russian camps a well as German ones. I went on a tour of the salt mines outside Krakow, which are worth a visit, and the guide only mentioned the Russian persecution and Polish resistance the whole way through. She asked for any questions at the end, and I asked if it was used during WW2. She mumbled that Jews worked in it building Messerschmitt parts.

Edited October 29, 2021 by welshbairn

[Lofarl]

I love visiting stuff to do with WW2.  I guess growing up in a military household will do that.  I’ve been to Arnhem, Nuremberg, Munich, Berlin etc.  The coolest place is the eagles nest.  Hitlers home is just below it.  All that’s left is a retaining wall and some rubble.  But going into a mountain then up a lift is some Bond villain stuff.  Nice wee tea house.  When I was in Bangkok I had intended  to visit the bridge over the river Kwai.  But I got totally howling the night before.

[bobbykdy]

Just now, Jacksgranda said:

He was lucky - the Poles suffered terribly under the Germans, the vast majority of Polish PoWs died under the Germans, maybe only the Russians suffered worse, and maybe not pro rata.

The Polish government estimated a couple of years ago that the Polish population is about 10,000,000 less than it should be because of the war.

He was fairly fortunate in the grand scheme, what I am led to believe save his life was that he was a skilled carpenter/joiner and had skills useful to them. He was from a part of Poland near the German border, Grudziądz, which actually alternated between being Polish and German and as a result spoke both languages. This led to his brother being captured and forced to fight for Germany and ended up killed on the Russian front.

[Michael W]

I've only been to Berlin so can't comment on Germany as a whole, but they don't exactly go out their way to hide it - it's all in the open and it is a fascinating if at the same time depressing experience learning about it. 

I wouldn't discuss it with a German unless they started the conversation, though. Mostly for fear I'd make them very uncomfortable. It isn't so far ago that some of them will have had family members they knew and grew up with that were involved in things they are ashamed of. That must be hard to take. I watched a documentary called Hitler's Children, which followed a few people that were the offspring or grandchildren of high ranking Nazis. One of them was the grandson of the Auschwitz Camp Commander and he was making his first ever trip there. It was interesting but also a very hard watch. There was also at least one of the people in the documentary that got himself sterilised because he didn't want to have kids that would have to carry the family's shame. 

I've no doubt some of us here in the UK had ancestors that were involved in things we are also ashamed of such as slavery, but that's outside of living memory and we won't have grown up with or around those that did those things. That makes it a whole lot harder to comprehend. 

[Left Back]

8 minutes ago, Lofarl said:

I love visiting stuff to do with WW2.  I guess growing up in a military household will do that.  I’ve been to Arnhem, Nuremberg, Munich, Berlin etc.  The coolest place is the eagles nest.  Hitlers home is just below it.  All that’s left is a retaining wall and some rubble.  But going into a mountain then up a lift is some Bond villain stuff.  Nice wee tea house.  When I was in Bangkok I had intended  to visit the bridge over the river Kwai.  But I got totally howling the night before.

The Eagle's nest is truly epic.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

There's a theory that Postwar Gemany's record of excellent engineering is in part down to the fact that it's one of the few school systems where maths and science lessons are significantly more fun than history classes

Edited October 29, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[Bert Raccoon]

The Nazis, great bunch of lads 

[BFTD]

"You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides".

[PauloPerth]

 

[Fullerene]

Even if you accept that the Nazis were a bunch of evil shits, it must be tricky in history classes that the Germans are not allowed to cheer on their own country in any way.

"At this point, the Bismarck fired a single shell and HMS Hood, the mightiest ship in the Royal Navy, exploded and sank within minutes".

"Yes.  You Beauty.  I mean, no, how dreadful.  What a terrible thing to happen".

[beefybake]

1 hour ago, pozbaird said:

My one and so far only, visit to Germany was to Berlin a few years ago. I thought, with the various museums I visited, this modern German capital city was facing that period in their history head-on. The German history museum was fascinating. So was the terror museum. What struck me most though was that a lot of buildings were still riddled with bullet marks from the war. Would love to go back. Even if it was just for their cake. Feckin’ Berlin should be awarded the world’s best cake award… should such an award exist.

Cake..  ?  What kind of cake ?

I've never heard of Berlin cake .