Should managers, like players, only be allowed to move during the transfer window?

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, Ric said:

 

It's all fine and well saying "how often does this happen", until you realise your club did literally this with Murty.

That surely helps my point! How well did that turn out? You also overlook the fact that Murty was only appointed after our preferred candidate knocked us back.

Edited February 17, 2022 by AJF

[Jacky1990]

14 minutes ago, Ric said:

 

Going to be honest I don't agree with any of that.

- Players are sacked all the time for poor performance, the only difference is they get dropped to the youths then sold in the next window. It's a de facto sacking.

- That's an argument against transfer windows, not managers in transfer windows. It's irrelevant whether it's your manager, goalkeeper or star striker that has signed a PCA.

- I don't know why you think there would be confusion, is there confusion now when a player signs a PCA? If so, again, that's an argument against the window, not specifically managers.

 

1) Huge difference between sacking someone and dropping them on full pay (minus bonuses) until another team takes them off your hands. Getting dropped to the youth team and placed on the transfer list isnt a de facto sacking at all. Players leave clubs after coming to mutual agreements on compensation, but they dont "get sacked".

2) There is a huge difference on whether its a manager or goalkeeper signing a PCA. The manager, generally, is responsible for the whole direction of a first team squad (signings, style of play, training, etc.). It would be a clusterfuck if a manager of one club had signed a contract with another team in the same division half way through the season and opens up a massive can of worms in terms of conflicts of interest and sporting integrity. Imagine Dundee had signed Davidson on a PCA this week; what motivation would Davidson have to keep St Johnstone up and send Dundee down when he knows he'd be in the Dundee dugout next season?

[Ric]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

That surely helps my point! How well did that turn out? You also overlook the fact that Murty was only appointed after our preferred candidate knocked us back.

Right, so you are moving away from it never happens to the it happens but it's always bad. Seems to be a bit of a slippery slope there.

I'll admit, I did chuckle at you claiming it never happens yet your own club did it a few years ago..

 

[paranoid android]

I can see the justification, but can't see how it could work in practical terms.

The issue is that, any time a club hits a sticky patch, the only thought is to change the manager.

There's Glass been sacked while Aberdeen are in no immediate danger - he could easily have been given a wee bit more time to sort it.

Imagine if Man U had sacked Alex Ferguson during that initial unsuccessful spell.

A window for managers would force clubs to stick with what they have - just can't see it happening.

[AJF]

31 minutes ago, Ric said:

Right, so you are moving away from it never happens to the it happens but it's always bad. Seems to be a bit of a slippery slope there.

I'll admit, I did chuckle at you claiming it never happens yet your own club did it a few years ago..

 

Please can you point out where I said it "never" happened?

Paging @Ricfor an answer to this.

Are you there, @Ric?

Edited February 17, 2022 by AJF

[scottsdad]

12 minutes ago, Ric said:

While it's far from perfect, the sheer gulf in the finances throughout this league suggests it's necessary.

Aberdeen, Hibs and/or another team in trouble, without the window they could throw money at the problem within the final month of the league and have a huge advantage over their rivals with less finances/resources.

 

That's always been the argument for the transfer window. That, plus the drama of deadline day with Jim White. 

In truth all the window has done is drive up prices as clubs panic buy before the window "slams shut".

[coprolite]

Voted no. 

Don't see the point

[D Angelo Barksdale]

All this would do is increase the likelihood that managers would resign from their current jobs and then move as free agents to their new one and denying the old club any compensation.

[Ric]

10 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

1) Huge difference between sacking someone and dropping them on full pay (minus bonuses) until another team takes them off your hands. Getting dropped to the youth team and placed on the transfer list isnt a de facto sacking at all. Players leave clubs after coming to mutual agreements on compensation, but they dont "get sacked".

2) There is a huge difference on whether its a manager or goalkeeper signing a PCA. The manager, generally, is responsible for the whole direction of a first team squad (signings, style of play, training, etc.). It would be a clusterfuck if a manager of one club had signed a contract with another team in the same division half way through the season and opens up a massive can of worms in terms of conflicts of interest and sporting integrity. Imagine Dundee had signed Davidson on a PCA this week; what motivation would Davidson have to keep St Johnstone up and send Dundee down when he knows he'd be in the Dundee dugout next season?

All that is saying those are different roles within a team, which is correct.

Like btb's post earlier, your points are more surrounding problems with the window in general, not that managers shouldn't be included in it. It's assuming that a manager will automatically do a bad job should they sign a PCA, which I'm not sure could really be proven. I can tell you what would happen in your contrived example above, the same as what happened with players. Watt is now at Dundee United after the clubs came to a deal, why would that be any different for a manager? What's more, do you genuinely see a case where a team in 11th playing badly would get the manager of a team in 12th, whose team is also dreadful, to sign a PCA with them? As I say, a somewhat contrived example there.

 

I have to congratulate you on hitting the "sporting integrity" bingo square quite so early in a thread. Well done..

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Ric

[Ric]

2 minutes ago, Lester Freamon said:

All this would do is increase the likelihood that managers would resign from their current jobs and then move as free agents to their new one and denying the old club any compensation.

They can do that now.

[craigkillie]

They can't do it now and wouldn't be able to under this half-baked idea either - a contract works both ways.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 minutes ago, Ric said:

They can do that now.

Of course, but this would increase the likelihood of it happening.

[Ric]

Just now, craigkillie said:

They can't do it now and wouldn't be able to under this half-baked idea either - a contract works both ways.

I would disagree, as that relies on the contract that they and the club entered into. There is absolutely no legal reason that people cannot resign from their position,  and find work elsewhere, and no contract should be allowed to restrict that. The restrictions come from the registration, not the employment.

 

[Bully Wee Villa]

No, and get rid of the transfer windows, too. Just gives an advantage to bigger clubs who have stockpiled players and so are less likely to suffer if they get injuries. March deadline for all transfers.

[Ric]

1 minute ago, Lester Freamon said:

Of course, but this would increase the likelihood of it happening.

Would it? I'm not entirely sure tbh.

[Ric]

Just now, Bully Wee Villa said:

No, and get rid of the transfer windows, too. Just gives an advantage to bigger clubs who have stockpiled players and so are less likely to suffer if they get injuries. March deadline for all transfers.

I'd argue quite the opposite, the transfer window mitigates the advantage of bigger clubs.

Having stockpiled players is nothing to do with the window and everything to do with youth/team development.

[Junior_Arab]

4 minutes ago, Ric said:

I would disagree, as that relies on the contract that they and the club entered into. There is absolutely no legal reason that people cannot resign from their position,  and find work elsewhere, and no contract should be allowed to restrict that. The restrictions come from the registration, not the employment.

 

Contracts in many industries are written perfectly legally in a way that prevents key employees simply resigning and assuming a job with rival firms for a set period of time, usually 6 months or a year. I’d imagine football clubs could do the same with managers and/or players if they don’t do so already.

[Steve McQueen]

Is it Italy where you can only manager 1 team a year in the league?

that’s why they rehire the previous managers all the time.

if you couldn’t sack them then would you go gardening leave & still bring in someone new?

[Ric]

Just now, Junior_Arab said:

Contracts in many industries are written perfectly legally in a way that prevents key employees simply resigning and assuming a job with rival firms for a set period of time, usually 6 months or a year. I’d imagine football clubs could do the same with managers and/or players if they don’t do so already.

Indeed, and I've had a similar clause in my contract before, where I wasn't allowed to work for the competition for (I think) 3 months. Now to be fair, I negotiated more money on me accepting those terms, but the choice was mine. It wasn't imposed on me.

That said, there was no registration process for me to work, so that's where the analogy falls down. However I think your point is valid, it could easily be incorporated into the game if there was the will to do it.

[Ric]

3 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said:

if you couldn’t sack them then would you go gardening leave & still bring in someone new?

Oh, you can still sack them, it all comes down to the contract they had signed in the first place. Just like players can be released by mutual consent. They will get a pay off that reflect the length of contract left.

 

Gardening leave is just the equivalent of training with the youths, imo..