JRS LEFT PEG Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I understand why people might feel they can't vote for people they didn't see and that's fair enough. It's a personal choice. However, I think I can make some sort of assessment of people's contribution to the club over the years from history books, facts & figures, articles, interviews, etc. At the end of the day, if everyone feels they can't vote for people they never saw play then there's never going to be anyone elected who pre-dates colour tv! (yes, some voters will have seen older players than that right back to pre-war, but they'll be the minority). I went for Roy Henderson and Iain McChesney mainly due to the longevity of contribution they made to the club. I never saw Henderson play and if I did see Ches then I wasn't really conscious of it. I presume I did see him play once or twice as a small child though. In Ches' case I also took into consideration his years of service since ceasing playing as coach, caretaker and match analyst. I very nearly voted for Bobby Black. He was the third I was choosing between. Tommy Bryce and Andy Thomson were in my thoughts too and all three should certainly get in sooner or later. So should people like Paul Burns, Andy Aitken and Jim Thomson himself. You could probably merrily include most of the older names on that appearances list for sure. I think that you hold service to the club as your most issue rather than a mixture of ability , appearances , goals , service and awards even . I prefer the second option and - yes I am trying to be impartial - but the most worthy candidate is guess who ? . Ability unquestionable , around 400 appearances , about 90 goals for a midfielder, long service , Second Division player of the year and also runner up . Player of the year at 36 years of age even. -------Not a criticism Skyline , just an observation .-----------------My second choice is the brilliant Thomas Bryce . A wonderful footballer who I will never forget. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I see you are logged in Distant Doonhamer. Will you mind me asking whether you have voted ? Iain McChesney and Tommy Bryce Mark2 Really tough to decide. Ches for outstanding service as a player and beyond. TB because I just loved him as player. Not the best I've seen that would be S Dobbie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think that you hold service to the club as your most issue rather than a mixture of ability , appearances , goals , service and awards even . I prefer the second option and - yes I am trying to be impartial - but the most worthy candidate is guess who ? . Ability unquestionable , around 400 appearances , about 90 goals for a midfielder, long service , Second Division player of the year and also runner up . Player of the year at 36 years of age even. -------Not a criticism Skyline , just an observation .-----------------My second choice is the brilliant Thomas Bryce . A wonderful footballer who I will never forget. Robertson was a very good player who sooner or later will be a valid and worthwhile addition to the Hall of Fame. He wouldn't be in my top half dozen on the list though as I said. His late career player of the year award was clearly an acknowledgement of his career contribution at the time (which is fair enough of course). I never really understood personally how Andy Thomson didn't win that year though. And no, I don't hold service alone as more important than a mixture of qualities. If I did the likes of Dougie Mills would be in with a shout and he shouldn't really be anywhere near a Hall of Fame. Equally as I've said already, if he was available to vote for I'd pick Stephen Dobbie first every single time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The thing for me is, the likes of Aitken and Thomson player a lot of games for Queens but neither are as good as Brian Reid or David Lilley IMO. I would be reluctant to vote for either of those for that reason, but wouldn't be adverse to the 2008 team going in as a unit. It's all about opinion of course, and what you interpret a Hall of Fame as being about too, but I wouldn't place either Reid or Lilley ahead of Thomson or Aitken. Were they better players? At their best they were going by the level they played at. Were they better for Queens? Possibly, but in smaller doses. Reid had one outstanding season with us in tandem with Thomson. I'd say they were as important as one another in that unit. Lilley did well as a young player for a couple of years and then had a Player of the Year standard season on his return before largely being very average the following season. Three good seasons at most. I don't actually think he did better for Queens than Jim Thomson did though and JT did it over a longer period, captained the side for most of his time here and scored that goal in the Cup Final for good measure. Aitken was the junior partner in a duo with JT for years of course. He wasn't as good a footballer as any of the other three (though quicker than all of them) but he played very well for us for a decade in two spells. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Someone like Dobbie for example had "3 good seasons" but those 3 seasons are the best any of us are ever going to see, sure fire Hall of Fame for me. Dobbie is the best player I`ve seen for QOS. In his final season in particular he was absolutely outstanding. Top player who will surely be in the hall of fame in the future. I`d love to see him get a call up for Scotland but sadly he`s probably not a "Levein player". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 For all Dobbies undoubted ability , he is unlikely to ever get a regular game at the top level down south. His fitness has come on leaps and bounds but he will never be seen as workmanlike or athletic enough 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeredbook Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) Dobbie is the best player I`ve seen for QOS. In his final season in particular he was absolutely outstanding. Top player who will surely be in the hall of fame in the future. I`d love to see him get a call up for Scotland but sadly he`s probably not a "Levein player". Where's he going to fit in a 4-6 formation ? .If Dobbie isnt good enough for the latest squad then it shows the mans a clown.Levein should have been sacked immediately after the 4-6 fiasco. Edited October 6, 2011 by weeredbook 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Dobbie can't get a game for his club, and isn't as good as others who play his position. Much as I loved Dobbie and can't stand Levein, I'd say you're probably right. Dobbie was unbelievably brilliant for us and he's done pretty well since going South, figuring prominently in 2 separate play off triumphs and becoming a Premiership player. The reality is though that at such a rarified level, he probably just comes up a bit short. I'd love to see him play for Scotland some time, but right now, it's not easy to make that compelling a case for his inclusion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Dobbie can't get a game for his club, and isn't as good as others who play his position. I am not sure at exactly what your definition of " isn`t as good as others" is . If you are saying that Dobbie comes up short technically compared to other Swansea strikers , then I would say you are wrong .He`s naturally very skilful and shouldn`t feel inedequate to many in the British game. If however , you are suggesting that physically he can`t keep up the pace with the EPL thoroughbreds , then I could be inclined to agree with you. On a side note , I think Dobbie is FAR better than some of the donkeys that have represented Scotland in recent and not so recent years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Much as I loved Dobbie and can't stand Levein, I'd say you're probably right. Dobbie was unbelievably brilliant for us and he's done pretty well since going South, figuring prominently in 2 separate play off triumphs and becoming a Premiership player. The reality is though that at such a rarified level, he probably just comes up a bit short. I'd love to see him play for Scotland some time, but right now, it's not easy to make that compelling a case for his inclusion. I am not sure at exactly what your definition of " isn`t as good as others" is . If you are saying that Dobbie comes up short technically compared to other Swansea strikers , then I would say you are wrong .He`s naturally very skilful and shouldn`t feel inedequate to many in the British game. If however , you are suggesting that physically he can`t keep up the pace with the EPL thoroughbreds , then I could be inclined to agree with you. On a side note , I think Dobbie is FAR better than some of the donkeys that have represented Scotland in recent and not so recent years. I was more meaning for Scotland, not good enough to play up front on his own and isn't as good as Bannan, Morrison or Naismith to play as one of the 3 behind the striker like he did last season for Swansea. Same problem for the Swans, not as good as Nathan Dyer, Scott Sinclair or Danny Graham. There is NO shame in any of that though. I'd tend to agree with all of that. I think Dobbie was a wee bit unlucky not to get a shot last year maybe. If he'd been around at the time Vogts was throwing caps around like confetti or when Levein was first trying to find new players, he might have got a go. Hammer is right about him being better than a lot of guys who have appeared for Scotland in the last few years. He might also have gotten in last year's Carling Cup squad if Swansea hadn't been in the playoffs at the time, thereby ruling him out. However, he doesn't really fit Levein's tactical set up and there are better players in his positions in the current squad. Plus, he's not started for Swansea since the opening week of the season. He's on the bench every week and getting on but he needs to score a few goals or start more often to even get on the radar. Guys like James McFadden who plays a similar creative role better couldn't even get in Levein's starting line ups when he ad a club and was fit (and when he does get a club and get playing again he'll be ahead of Dobbie in the pecking order to do that role again). Dobbie will certainly never play as a lone striker anywhere. He wasn't even good enough to do that role for us. It's not his forte. And as that's Levein's tactic then his only chance for Scotland is as an attacking behind the strikers role, most likely as a sub. He'll need a few injuries and squad withdrawals to get a look in at that though. Scotland are better off for players now than we have been for a good while. His timing has been unlucky but he's probably missed the boat. I'd love to see him get a go though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) On an entirely different subject, Queens drew 1-1 with Clyde in a bounce game yesterday I hear. Carmichael scored for us, no idea who scored for them. We started a fairly strong line up apart from Craig Reid, Mark Campbell and Scott McLaughlin not playing but played a much younger side second half including a couple of lads from the u17 side. Marc McCusker got 45 minutes again. Edited October 9, 2011 by Skyline Drifter -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yeh, I agree with that Skyline . He has missed the boat on the international stage. Scotland are usually set up in a 4-5-1 to make it more difficult for the opposition. This way to compensate for our technical deficiency and Dobbie could never do the lone man role . Dobbies lack of starts could mean he will be better looking at another loan. He is the kind of guy , even more than others, that needs to be playing regularly to get the best out of him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Dobbie is one of those few select players that retains our best interests after they have left Queens. Off the top of my head, Paul Burns and Andy Thompson were others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Dobbie is one of those few select players that retains our best interests after they have left Queens. Off the top of my head, Paul Burns and Andy Thompson were others. As in Queens fans follow him fondly elsewhere? You can probably add Bob Harris, we just haven't heard an awful lot about him because he hasn't had games at Blackpool. Jamie McAllister too I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 As in Queens fans follow him fondly elsewhere? You can probably add Bob Harris, we just haven't heard an awful lot about him because he hasn't had games at Blackpool. Jamie McAllister too I think. In other words, we tend to take more interest in those who move away from us in an upward direction rather than sideways or down. Obviously enough, the upwardly mobile ones are the players who did well for us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 In other words, we tend to take more interest in those who move away from us in an upward direction rather than sideways or down. Obviously enough, the upwardly mobile ones are the players who did well for us. Think it's more to do with favourites. Weatherson and Weatherston spring to mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) In other words, we tend to take more interest in those who move away from us in an upward direction rather than sideways or down. Obviously enough, the upwardly mobile ones are the players who did well for us. True. I think it's also a lot easier to follow careers of anyone who leaves us now in this internet age. I don't think in reality anything's really changed from 20 years ago other than that we're more likely to have actually had players who moved on upwards now than then. I used to pay attention to what the likes of Jimmy Robertson and Tommy Bryce were doing after leaving us two decades ago but it's clearly easier to source info these days. I remember running a quiz on a bus to an away game in the mid 90's and asking who the only former Queens player to be playing at a higher level than the club was at the time. The answer was Darren Henderson who had temporarily found himself a club a division up (it may have been when Stranraer were above us for a while under McAnespie). We've come a long way since then when you think that we are sitting here debating whether an ex-Queens player should be in the Scotland squad or not and we've several others in the Championship and SPL. Edited October 10, 2011 by Skyline Drifter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Can think of a couple of exceptions to that theory Monkey Tennis . Andy Aitken and Sean O'Connor moved away in a downward slide from us but their progress was still followed by most 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Think it's more to do with favourites. Weatherson and Weatherston spring to mind. I'm not sure what you mean by citing those two. Weatherson actually moved away in a downward direction and Weatherston's was sideways. Both had plenty who saw them as favourites at the time, although Weatherston's recent departure certainly caused some controversy. Edited October 10, 2011 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 MacAusland doing well at St.Mirren . Always thought he was a player who could survive up a level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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