The Queen of the South thread

[Telboy]

You maybe did. It certainly wasn't obvious to the majority of people who chucked money in buckets inside the ground at the time. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to assume a bucket collection inside the actual turnstiles would be money given directly the club and not used by a third party.

Like I said, I certainly knew that "Save Our South" wasn't a club run thing but even I thought the original bucket collection was just a volunteer force on the day collecting donations for the club. I had no awareness that the money was going to be retained for a period before being used to buy shares etc. A number of people later complained to the club about that when they found out. I'd imagine a significantly large number of people still don't realise it didn't go directly to the club.

Mr Wallace was entitled to complain about that without being "shot down" for it. Albeit as I said, the club AGM probably wasn't where he should have done so.

I would tend to disagree, having been part of the 'bucket brigade' the MAJORITY of people who donated did so on the understanding that it was NOT to go directly to the club without terms being made that the monies were 'ring fenced', or as someone pointed out, not 'into the blackhole'.

I also find it strange that you say you knew the SoS was not a club run thing, therefor I thought it would stand to reason that it was third party?

Maybe if some transparency had been shown by the club in the outset rather than the Chairman going cap in hand to supporters groups then a lot of this confusion could have been avoided?

Edited December 7, 2011 by Telboy

[Skyline Drifter]

So we have gone from "some" people to the "majority" being misled, and "A number of people later complained to the club about that when they found out." For the sake of accuracy can you quote your figures for the majority against the number who contributed and who kept count of the actual number who contributed. How many was "The Number" who later complained to the Club ?

As you could be seen as supporting an attack on the "Queens Trust" and their intentions by appearing to agree with Mr Wallace, (in tone anyway) of your responses, I assume you would welcome him if he were offered a position on the Board of, Queen Of The South, then he and you could comment from a position of inside knowledge on exactly what "The Trust" have provided in terms of monies and other assistance to the Club.

Do you and Mr Wallace feel it would be suitable for someone acting on behalf of the Club to engage in Mud Slinging between Club and Trust on Internet Forums or other media ? and if not, what actions do you believe would be suitable to end such behaviour ?

Is it not just a wee bit coincidental this affair rears its head again so close to the AGM of Queen Of The South ????????

I didn't raise the issue but I reserve the right to comment on it as I see fit seeing as it was raised by someone else. I don't really see what it's relevance to the impending AGM is either unless someone intends to mention the same thing again which would be very pointless this far on. Neither have I "attacked" the Trust. I do find it interesting though that any comment perceived as remotely critical about the Trust tends to see a circling of the wagons.

Do you really think the majority of rank and file fans were completely conscious that the bucket collections, particularly the first one, were not going directly to the club? I fully accept most of the regular internet users or anyone who attended the initial rally may well have been aware of it but in reality what approximate percentage of the people through the turnstiles do you think that represents? My guess is no better than yours on that front but I'd be surprised if it's even half of them. I think the rest when arriving inside the turnstile to find a bucket in front of them with "Save Our South" written on it (correct me if I'm wrong about what was written on them, I'm not sure I ever actually saw one) would probably assume it was for donations to the club. Perhaps it was explained to them who it was for at the time but clearly Mr Wallace and others weren't aware of it.

I have no idea how many people actually contributed nor how much was raised. I'm sure you have a much better idea than I do. I don't know exactly how many people complained to the club but I know some people did. I do know of a handful of people personally who weren't happy when they found out later. Maybe they were the only people in that position but I would guess that's unlikely. I've already named two of them (my father and my wife) and I think we can probably presume that Ian Wallace is a third. I'm not going to name others. I would guess reactions like these are why they aren't willing to say anything publicly about it.

Just to be clear about it since you seem to be implying he's some big mate of mine, I do not know Ian Wallace personally. I didn't have the first clue who he was when he stood up and made his comment at the last AGM (I was told later who he had been) and other than a brief "Hello" when I met him at Palmerston this season as he was collecting season tickets, leaving the office as I arrived, I don't think I've ever spoken to him. I know he and his family run the Cairndale but not much more than that. I have no idea whether he'd be a good director or not but I'd welcome anyone who was invited to be a director of the club. Just as I did Mark Robertson who I had also never met before he was appointed a director.

I don't see any mud-slinging here to be honest unless you are taking offence at the word "misled" which certainly wasn't meant to imply anything deliberate was involved. If you took it that way then it honestly wasn't meant as such. I don't really see why I should spell it out again here but just to be clear, I don't have a problem with the Trust, I don't have a problem with their aims and you can ultimately do whatever you like with the money you raise. I think the Trust have done some superb things over the last 10 or 11 months. Equally I don't think it's unreasonable to acknowledge that clearly many people did believe the money they threw in buckets was going directly to the club and some of them were unhappy to realise later that it didn't. They don't deserve to be "shot down" for having the temerity to say so. That's the point I took issue with. I'm sorry if you see that as adversarial. It needn't be. FC1919 and I appeared to be discussing it perfectly civilly before this post. As was said earlier, it's really not that important now and the money ended up with the club anyway.

I would tend to disagree, having been part of the 'bucket brigade' the MAJORITY of people who donated did so on the understanding that it was NOT to go directly to the club without terms being made that the monies were 'ring fenced', or as someone pointed out, not 'into the blackhole'.

I also find it strange that you say you knew the SoS was not a club run thing, therefor I thought it would stand to reason that it was third party?

Maybe if some transparency had been shown by the club in the outset rather than the Chairman going cap in hand to supporters groups then a lot of this confusion could have been avoided?

You were involved , if you say that's the case I don't doubt it. You would accept presumably though that it is possible that some people who put money in the buckets didn't say that or indeed appreciate where it was going?

As I said already I actually thought on the first bucket collection that the Save Our South campaign was providing manpower for a collection on behalf of the club, not collecting it for themselves. I was clearly mistaken but if I thought that it seems likely others did too.

I agree absolutely 100% on your last sentence and I've said so before. I'm sure it can probably be found earlier in this thread somewhere. The way the whole thing came out at the time was very badly handled by the club. You won't get an argument from me on that point.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Skyline Drifter

[happysouth]

Agree totally with this.

and me. I thought it was obvious.

[Monkey Tennis]

FWIW, I can understand both parts here.

The assumption that collections within the ground would be directly on behalf of the club seems reasonable enough to me. Similarly, the reluctance some express on here to donate money straight into the 'black hole' which had been created makes sense to me too.

I sometimes think we're all guilty of thinking that sad cases like ourselves who spend more time than is sensible thinking, talking, reading and writing about Queens, are representative of everyone who cares.

We're not.

There'll be plenty, even among the regulars, who take much less day-to-day interest. Otherwise, between QOSMad and here, we'd have over a thousand Queens fans posting.

In fairness to SD, his latest post is so measured and reasonable that I'm starting to think he's maybe not actually Robert Mugabe at all.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Monkey Tennis

[Distant Doonhamer]

In fairness to SD, his latest post is so measured and reasonable that I'm starting to think he's maybe not actually Robert Mugabe at all.

[JRS LEFT PEG]

Enjoyed our reminisce about the Hearts 83 game . Good that others have similar memories. Do you mind if I ask what your memories are of your first Qos game . Of course, other posters recollections as well would be good.

[JRS LEFT PEG]

This one might have been done to death but I missed it . If so , what about memories from your first season ie players, goals or whatever else

[Monkey Tennis]

Enjoyed our reminisce about the Hearts 83 game . Good that others have similar memories. Do you mind if I ask what your memories are of your first Qos game . Of course, other posters recollections as well would be good.

1976 against this weekend's opponents at Palmerston. We got a 2-2 draw, having trailed 0-2.

Don't remember much other than my dad being the only person in the main stand to get up and cheer when Dundee scored. I went in the huff with him.

[TeeMan]

This one might have been done to death but I missed it . If so , what about memories from your first season ie players, goals or whatever else

85/86, Stewart Cochrane, Tommy Bryce, Billy Reid, Kevin Heatherington, Jimmy Robertson et al. I'd been into a few games in years previously but always with my dad after the gates opened to let people out. First full game was 2-0 against Raith Rovers they had a player sent off for what to me at the time was the mysterious 'off the ball incident' I think. I remember being most impressed by how many headers Kevin Heatherington would do in the warm up! I used to always say that in my first season I'd seen Raith, Airdrie and Dunfermline who'd all gone on to play in Europe whilst Queens were languishing in the Scottish lower leagues - l'm glad that one had a happy ending.

[JRS LEFT PEG]

Kevin was not the tallest but a very good header of the ball. His partnership at the back with Bobby Parker is still the best I have seen in my time watching Queens . Of course , I realise that they were up against Second Division opposition and so it was easier for them to keep forwards out but even so. I was speaking to Kevin a couple of weeks ago and asked him why he wasn't at the HOF night . He said it was because he didn't agree about Ches not getting inducted after all his service .------------Thats the thing about these nights in that only five greats out of the many candidates can get in. I expect Ches turn to come next year along with a tall , left winger as well.

[Skyline Drifter]

1999/2000, and being saved by Accies mistakes. Along with some utter dross on the park like something Duncan and Alan Kerr. Yuck.

Graham Duncan. That was a very poor squad over the piece.

85/86, Stewart Cochrane, Tommy Bryce, Billy Reid, Kevin Heatherington, Jimmy Robertson et al. I'd been into a few games in years previously but always with my dad after the gates opened to let people out. First full game was 2-0 against Raith Rovers they had a player sent off for what to me at the time was the mysterious 'off the ball incident' I think. I remember being most impressed by how many headers Kevin Heatherington would do in the warm up! I used to always say that in my first season I'd seen Raith, Airdrie and Dunfermline who'd all gone on to play in Europe whilst Queens were languishing in the Scottish lower leagues - l'm glad that one had a happy ending.

Apologies in advance for the pedantry but we didn't play Airdrie in 85/86. They were a division above. We played them early in 86/87 after promotion though I think.

85/86 was my first season of regular attendance after I was deemed old enough to go to games on my own (my dad worked Saturdays). Used to go with school friends Paul Gass and Greg Sloan for the first year or so. Paul got more interested in cars and motor bikes within a year or so and stopped going, eventually moving abroad with Gates though I believe he may be back in Dumfries now. Haven't seen him in a long time though. Greg was unfortunately killed in an accident a year or so later when he was hit by a lorry whilst delivering newspapers. RIP.

I can remember going to odd games on big occasions from 1980 onwards though but my first vague memories of a game at Palmerston was in the late 70's when my aunt's then fiance decided we'd all go to the football for the afternoon as she'd seen a poster advertising the game somewhere. Turned out it was a reserve game and there were about 15 people there! I've no idea who we played or what the score was, I just recall thinking it didn't look much like football on tv did.

[JRS LEFT PEG]

Gassy is back working in Gates after a stint in Poland

[Monkey Tennis]

Apologies in advance for the pedantry but we didn't play Airdrie in 85/86. They were a division above. We played them early in 86/87 after promotion though I think.

We did indeed play Airdrie on the opening day of the '86/'87 season.

At half-time, their two subs came over to where I was standing with a pal and his brother and young nephew in the cowshed (We'd planned on changing ends at half-time, but had been confronted for the first time by the segregation fence) and asked about the "fuckin' score in the Rangers gemme". Unfortunately, we couldn't yet tell them about the two nil defeat Rangers were heading for with Souness getting sent off on his competitive debut.

As for my first full season, despite attending a handful of games over the previous five seasons, my first as a regular was in '81/'82. The division included St Johnstone, Dunfermline, Motherwell and Hearts and we got relegated, having only just come up. Our season included a nineteen game spell without a win, the type of run which eluded even Chisholm.

I went to those games with the boys next door who were a little older and then once at Secondary, went with mates from there. I drifted away a bit during my mid-teens, but came back before leaving school and have gone to home games when possible ever since. This has included spells living elsewhere, so I've been far from ever-present, but I've always gone when I can. For the last twelve years or so, that's been virtually all the time, at least for home games.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Monkey Tennis

[TeeMan]

Apologies in advance for the pedantry but we didn't play Airdrie in 85/86. They were a division above. We played them early in 86/87 after promotion though I think.

I was only ten at the time so I'll excuse my mistake.

After this I went intermittently with my dad and brother for a few years and only really started to go regularly when I'd moved to Dumfries from the sticks and was at the High School with my mates. Managed to follow the team pretty regularly after moving to Glasgow for university and staying on there and now have a good group of Queens supporting friends who I never knew when I actually lived in Dumfries. Moved down south last year and haven't made it to a game yet this season - New Year will hopefully be the first.

Edited December 8, 2011 by TeeMan

[WILLIEA]

January 1965, the day of Churchills funeral. Snow was really deep, only the lines had been cleared and a bright yellow ball was used.

Remember Charlie Dickson sneaking up behind an Accies player during a lull in play and booted him on the backside.

Game finished 3-3

[kirkyblue2]

Re the bucket collection. Maybe people should ask before they throw money in rather than assume. If anyone wants to donate directly to the club they can go to the office or do it online.

Smacks of a them and us situation even if it's not intended.

[Homer Thompson]

I have no idea what season I started going. I remember going to a couple of away games towards the end of one season - Airdries old ground and possibly Shawfield - before starting to go regularly the following season.

I would have been about 15ish, so around 88/89. Pretty sure my first full season of going to every game was the one when Eadie was player/co-manager

[HoBNob]

January 1965, the day of Churchills funeral. Snow was really deep, only the lines had been cleared and a bright yellow ball was used.

Remember Charlie Dickson sneaking up behind an Accies player during a lull in play and booted him on the backside.

Game finished 3-3

Charlie Dickson who used to play for Dunfermline? He's our all time record goalscorer.

[HoBNob]

Sorry just saw this!

How does he compare to Willie Gibson? I thought Burns was the better player.

Not at all, Burns is just poor for us, has energy in that he runs about(not particularly fast) and that's about it, Burns just gets pushed off the ball, doesn't seem to have any pace or good passing ability and is poor in the challenge, really disappointed with him after the reviews that Queens fans gave him.

Seems to have a decent shot on him though, scored against Dundee United with a decent effort and against Inverness he had a shot which hit both posts, I think it would be best for both parties though if he went down to the 1st.

[Monkey Tennis]

Burns just gets pushed off the ball

I'm willing to bet that this isn't true, but people say it anyway, simply because he's skinny.