Monkey Tennis Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 You know what I meant by evidence. So, we should wait until the end of the season to judge McIntyre? I don't. No, we can make judgements now if we please in the context of this point of the season. Plaudits for actually meeting expectations are however, premature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard doonhamer Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Given McIntyre's track record of improving year on year, I'm quite happy with this season as a starting point. I think that, given time, he can lead us up to the premiership. Have patience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 In McIntyre we trust. Some of us had faith in the manager. We aimed for 4th as a realistic prospect for a newly promoted team. McIntyre has delivered. The tedious detractors should eat some humble pie. You know who you are. Given McIntyre's track record of improving year on year, I'm quite happy with this season as a starting point. I think that, given time, he can lead us up to the premiership. Have patience. I for one have not a lot of faith in the guy. At the start of the season there was no need for him to "tinker" with the team the way he did over the first 10 games or so, which seriously handicapped us in the race for the play off's. SD's table showing our form now reads 30 points from the 15 games since the start of Dec. Therefore we only picked up 15 points from the first 15 games while he chopped and chanced his formation and personnel. To think that Durnan wasn't seen as a first choice centre half and that Russell has never been given a run through the middle to me is quite bizarre. We needed a keeper and look who he signed and when everyone called for a striker he brings in a guy who's not very prolific to say the least, yet tends to keep either of our two goal scoring strikers out of the team. Dowie and Kerr are decent additions as for Kidd, well it's a total mystery why the lad is here at all as it doesn't look as though he'll ever get a game. Overall I think his signings have not been great and I still have a big question mark over his tactics at times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I for one have not a lot of faith in the guy. At the start of the season there was no need for him to "tinker" with the team the way he did over the first 10 games or so, which seriously handicapped us in the race for the play off's. SD's table showing our form now reads 30 points from the 15 games since the start of Dec. Therefore we only picked up 15 points from the first 15 games while he chopped and chanced his formation and personnel. To think that Durnan wasn't seen as a first choice centre half and that Russell has never been given a run through the middle to me is quite bizarre. We needed a keeper and look who he signed and when everyone called for a striker he brings in a guy who's not very prolific to say the least, yet tends to keep either of our two goal scoring strikers out of the team. Dowie and Kerr are decent additions as for Kidd, well it's a total mystery why the lad is here at all as it doesn't look as though he'll ever get a game. Overall I think his signings have not been great and I still have a big question mark over his tactics at times. I agree with the thrust of this, but before one of McIntyre's apologists points it out, Russell has been played through the middle once or twice, without success. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I agree with the thrust of this, but before one of McIntyre's apologists points it out, Russell has been played through the middle once or twice, without success. I don't recall this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanadia Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Lets put things in perspective. Where does McIntyre sit compared to McPherson and Johnston? At the beginning of the season is was very Gus-esque, though the football was slightly better to watch. Still a number of players out of position, debatable formations and a worrying league position. As the season has progressed, as many have pointed out, things are moving slowly towards the Johnston level of performance and best use of players. Of course it's not there yet, and may never do so, but that's the expectations of many Queens fans. And I don't think it's wrong to have higher expectations but that has to be tempered against the fact this is McIntyres first season at Palmerston. He is making decent progress - eventually - and I hope it continues with a play off place. That's a fair ask of this with the players he has inherited. I've not been his biggest fan, but he's slowly winning folk round, including myself. So where is he between Johnston and McPherson on the 'like ability' scale? Somewhere in-between for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 In McIntyre we trust. Some of us had faith in the manager. We aimed for 4th as a realistic prospect for a newly promoted team. McIntyre has delivered. The tedious detractors should eat some humble pie. You know who you are. Some of the detractors completely vanished as soon as we hit a run of form .From previously being regulars on here, they have dissapeared into thin air . No doubt they would still be telling us how bad we are if the early bad form had continued. None of it surprising to me and what I always suspected and expected of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Lets put things in perspective. Where does McIntyre sit compared to McPherson and Johnston? At the beginning of the season is was very Gus-esque, though the football was slightly better to watch. Still a number of players out of position, debatable formations and a worrying league position. As the season has progressed, as many have pointed out, things are moving slowly towards the Johnston level of performance and best use of players. Of course it's not there yet, and may never do so, but that's the expectations of many Queens fans. And I don't think it's wrong to have higher expectations but that has to be tempered against the fact this is McIntyres first season at Palmerston. He is making decent progress - eventually - and I hope it continues with a play off place. That's a fair ask of this with the players he has inherited. I've not been his biggest fan, but he's slowly winning folk round, including myself. So where is he between Johnston and McPherson on the 'like ability' scale? Somewhere in-between for me. I can see where you're coming from but as far as progress I'd disagree. With the squad he inherited 4th place was the least we should have been aiming for. McIntyre took us backwards and we are only now back to where we were playing a 4-4-2 and pressing teams. Edited March 23, 2014 by Hawk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmy_cammy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Although my thoughts on McIntyre are a lot closer to those shared by Hawk and Monkey Tennis, I think you have to acknowledge that if those who are blind to anything negative, so called "happy-clappers", are tedious and unrealistic. So too is constantly pointing out negatives now that we are actually achieving a bit of success. I'm afraid it is going to take a lot for me to become converted to being a McIntyre fan. The troubles we found ourself in were all entirely down to him, and were completely needless. It also took him far too long to resolve them, probably down to a stubborn "I know best" attitude. His tactics still don't fill me with any great confidence, and his signings have been particularly hit and miss, with the emphasis on miss. None of the above are new points though, and it's probably time to just enjoy the run we are on and see where we find ourselves at the end of the season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broony88 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't recall this. Me neither but may have been a game I missed but don't remember it being mentioned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard doonhamer Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Russell was played through the middle away to st mirren and was ineffective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Correct. Andy Dowie is solid. Solid............ like a turd. In all seriousness, I don't want to be in the playoff but if we are then I'd rather not play Queens. We'd probably lose and Mark Kerr would play like Xavi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't. No, we can make judgements now if we please in the context of this point of the season. Plaudits for actually meeting expectations are however, premature. You said there was less to suggest Johnston could produce the sustained run of form we're currently on. I was presuming you were basing this on some sort of evidence. Is the judgement not, then, in the context of this point of the season, that we are exactly where we thought/hoped we would be - but for a mistake by a young keeper and a ridiculous penalty decision we'd be 3rd? This isnt aimed at you personally, but I have no doubts that if we were in the same position under Johnston there would be much back slapping and congratulations on a job well done. I agree with the thrust of this, but before one of McIntyre's apologists points it out, Russell has been played through the middle once or twice, without success. I can only remember the replay against St Mirren. He was on his own with Carmichael in an unfamiliar "number 10" role. As DHD said, he was totally ineffective, but I dont really think that should be taken as either hime being "tried" there or any indication of whether or not he'd be succesfull through the middle. McIntyre isnt immune from criticism and his continued playing of Russell on the left when it clearly isnt working is a perfectly valid criticism. Not entirely sure what anyone is apologising for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Me neither but may have been a game I missed but don't remember it being mentioned. Russell played as part of a front two with Lyle at home to Raith early season and at home to Cowdenbeath a few weeks later (the 1-1 game), he was also moved to play the second half of the first Falkirk away game through the middle with Lyle. Plus as others have mentioned he started the St Mirren away cup game as a solo striker, though he and Lyle switched round before half time as it obviously wasn't working. Lets put things in perspective. Where does McIntyre sit compared to McPherson and Johnston? At the beginning of the season is was very Gus-esque, though the football was slightly better to watch. Still a number of players out of position, debatable formations and a worrying league position. As the season has progressed, as many have pointed out, things are moving slowly towards the Johnston level of performance and best use of players. Of course it's not there yet, and may never do so, but that's the expectations of many Queens fans. And I don't think it's wrong to have higher expectations but that has to be tempered against the fact this is McIntyres first season at Palmerston. He is making decent progress - eventually - and I hope it continues with a play off place. That's a fair ask of this with the players he has inherited. I've not been his biggest fan, but he's slowly winning folk round, including myself. So where is he between Johnston and McPherson on the 'like ability' scale? Somewhere in-between for me. Statistically McIntyre is our most successful manager in points per game terms at second tier level in the "modern" post SPL creation era. His average points per game is better than Scott, McCall, Chisholm, Brannigan and MacPherson. He also has a better points per game record than John Connolly did in the first division. Allan Johnston only managed a single match in the first division which he lost to Ross County so isn't included in the stats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 You said there was less to suggest Johnston could produce the sustained run of form we're currently on. I was presuming you were basing this on some sort of evidence. Eh? You'd said that there was nothing to suggest that Johnston could have taken us on our current run and I responded a little facetiously in saying that there was less to suggest he couldn't have. As you're fond of highlighting, pure conjecture of course on both our parts. Given what Johnston delivered last season at a weaker level and in Cups, I'd imagine that he'd have been able to get plenty out of us this time too. Palmy Cammy' s right though. We're doing well just now and it's welcome. When invited to evaluate McIntyre however, I'm not going to shower him in praise I still don't see as entirely deserved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) As you're fond of highlighting, pure conjecture of course on both our parts. Given what Johnston delivered last season at a weaker level and in Cups, I'd imagine that he'd have been able to get plenty out of us this time too. To be fair (and I know this isn't directly your point) I think McIntyre's cup record stands reasonable comparison with Johnston's. Neither has been on the end of a "shock". Neither indeed has even lost to an equivalent club in cup competition. Johnston was unfortunate to lose a Scottish Cup tie narrowly at Kilmarnock with 10 men. McIntyre was unfortunate to go out at the same stage in a replay to St Mirren in which we could and perhaps should have won the first game. He also won a far more difficult tie against Hamilton to get there than Johnston did (Edinburgh City). Johnston was unfortunate to lose 1-0 to Dundee United in the League Cup having eliminated Hibs and Alloa to get that far. McIntyre was perhaps even more unfortunate to lose away to Hearts on penalties having eliminated the holders St Mirren and Annan Athletic to get that far. Johnston's side won the Ramsdens Cup very well including a win at Ibrox and victory over the first division's top two. McIntyre's side went out at the quarter final stage to a much stronger Rangers side than we'd faced the year before having eliminated Spartans and Airdrie to get that far. In reality the difference between their cup records is really just the respective results against Rangers, where the difference in standard of Rangers between the two seasons is clear. Edited March 23, 2014 by Skyline Drifter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 To be fair (and I know this isn't directly your point) I think McIntyre's cup record stands reasonable comparison with Johnston's. Neither has been on the end of a "shock". Neither indeed has even lost to an equivalent club in cup competition. Johnston was unfortunate to lose a Scottish Cup tie narrowly at Kilmarnock with 10 men. McIntyre was unfortunate to go out at the same stage in a replay to St Mirren in which we could and perhaps should have won the first game. He also won a far more difficult tie against Hamilton to get there than Johnston did (Edinburgh City). Johnston was unfortunate to lose 1-0 to Dundee United in the League Cup having eliminated Hibs and Alloa to get that far. McIntyre was perhaps even more unfortunate to lose away to Hearts on penalties having eliminated the holders St Mirren and Annan Athletic to get that far. Johnston's side won the Ramsdens Cup very well including a win at Ibrox and victory over the first division's top two. McIntyre's side went out at the quarter final stage to a much stronger Rangers side than we'd faced the year before having eliminated Spartans and Airdrie to get that far. In reality the difference between their cup records is really just the respective results against Rangers, where the difference in standard of Rangers between the two seasons is clear. Indeed, but as you say, that's not really what I was getting at. I wasn't citing Johnston's cup record in order to compare it to McIntyre's. I was citing it in order to counter the inevitable pointing out that the 3rd tier is of a weaker standard than the 2nd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos1990 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I'm a fan of McIntyre. He was always going to tinker at start of season, any manager would want to put his stamp on it, unfortunately it never worked out but he's definitely turned the corner. His signings been 50/50. Dowie, Kerr and Zander are definite thumbs up, the yank and antell thumbs down. Although the yank looked the business in pre season id have signed him on back of them games also. Mchugh is in middle. Also think he needs credit for mcshanes marked improvement, I'm his biggest critic but last 3 or 4 games he's really impressed me. It certainly will be an interesting summer. Hopefully he gets Paton, Mitch, gav and mark Kerr signed up. Then Zander sorted, I heard yesterday that McIntyre has made it clear he's who he wants as number 1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I'm a fan of McIntyre. He was always going to tinker at start of season, any manager would want to put his stamp on it, unfortunately it never worked out I know I'm a stuck record so sorry in advance, but I totally reject such 'logic'. Why the Hell would anyone wish to make their own mark, at the risk of damaging performance? I know It's your take, rather than McIntyre's avowed one, but I suspect you're right about his motivations. It really does not amount to a defence of him. Right, I'm determined to ease up on the McIntyre slating while we're well placed. I need your help in allowing me to do this though people. Edited March 23, 2014 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I know I'm a stuck record so sorry in advance, but I totally reject such 'logic'. Why the Hell would anyone wish to make their own mark, at the risk of damaging performance? I know It's your take, rather than McIntyre's avowed one, but I suspect you're right about his motivations. It really does not amount to a defence of him. Right, I'm determined to ease up on the McIntyre slating while we're well placed. I need your help in allowing me to do this though people. Dont worry, we're here for you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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