The Official Liz Truss no longer PM but still a Clusterfuck thread

[Lofarl]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Some stamina the old boy has.  Fair play.

[Monkey Tennis]

24 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

Most people don't but there are a large swathe of Tory voters who, quite frankly, do as perhaps it's the only way they will learn.  

What's that James O'Brien line: 'contempt for the conmen; compassion for the conned'?

It's not always easily maintained, but I think it has merit.

[Guest Jedi]

Ah the good old..'he's no the brightest' as the response...

Not me who originly brought up the Starmer no better than Truss etc in the Truss thread, but anyway...

[btb]

2 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Brexit is the killer for Labour in Scotland IMO. They believe in it like the Tories do.  Scotland voted against it, hence why Labour have 1 MP here, for example.

That's the point, they clearly don't but their priority is the red walls seats they lost at the last GE and they are prepared to sell their souls to win them back - the branch office is just collateral damage.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

What's the point of Labour thread for this pish. This is a thread about oor Lizzie, who looks to be standing down imminently. 

Nah, it's a perfectly legitimate discussion for here.

This is where people have been saying Starmer's Labour are just the same as Truss' Tories.  That witless assertion needs challenging.

[Florentine_Pogen]

Truss is now PINO until 1922 Greysuits can ratify rule changes.

The clownshoe clusterfvck continues.

 

[Alert Mongoose]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

What's that James O'Brien line: 'contempt for the conmen; compassion for the conned'?

It's not always easily maintained, but I think it has merit.

I think it depends on the intricacy of the con. This one wasn't subtle.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, btb said:

That's the point, they clearly don't but their priority is the red walls seats they lost at the last GE and they are prepared to sell their souls to win them back - the branch office is just collateral damage.

Yes, that's true, and it helps explain why Labour has evaporated as a force in Scotland.

Labour's outward stance on Brexit doesn't deserve admiration.  I struggle to see it as anything other than understandable though.

[Leith Green]

10 minutes ago, Jedi said:

There is no question from.the tone and rhetoric of the SNP echo chamber here that Labour are despised more than the Tories. When it comes to getting into bed with the Tories no less a figure than Alex Salmond relied on working with the Tories post 2007 and copying up to Annabele Goldie to get SNP policies through.

The SNP are a big business/keep the markets happy party, whose policies are designed as a sop to the middle class..whether it is Council Tax freezes, free prescriptions, low corporation taxes. They are the natural party of rural farming Scotland as that is their traditional supporter base, and don't ever want to upset the middle class applecart by implementing redistributive policies (the only one they have managed in 15 years is the Proceesds of Crime Bill).

The idea that the Labour govt from 1997-2010 did nothing to improve people's lives in the UK is incredible..minimum wage, Sure Start, record numbers of working class going to university, record investment in.health and education,. smaller class sizes, windfall taxes on private companies, a Human Rights Act, same sex marriage, lowest levels of crime for decades..to name a few.

So the argument that Labour in power have done 'nothing' for Scotlland (setting up Devolution in the first place?)...

 

Dinnae talk shite, nobody is despised more than the tories.

Labour are just a nonentity party up here who have many of the same policies as the tories.

Theres at least 3 councils in Scotland (incuding Edinburgh) where the SNP have the largest number of councillers, but where Labour work hand in hand with the fucking Conservatives - something I didnt think I would see in my lifetime.

That, on top of their better together lies, is why a lot of people dinnae like Labour nothing to do with the shite in your post.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Alert Mongoose said:

I think it depends on the intricacy of the con. This one wasn't subtle.

It didn't need to be.  

I get as frustrated as anyone when I see disadvantaged people on telly, saying they'll vote Tory for reasons that are frankly, stupid.  

Being less interested, informed or educated than you are, however, doesn't mean someone deserves to be exploited and despised.

[Dan Steele]

16 minutes ago, Jedi said:

The SNP are a big business/keep the markets happy party, whose policies are designed as a sop to the middle class

Absolute rubbish. The swing in cities to the SNP was quite remarkable and probably a large part of the reason why Lab hate SNP with a vengeance. As for all the wonderful things you believe Lab will bring to Scotland, do you ever stop and think what Lab could offer an independent Scotland if it had all the levers of, I don't know, every other independent country?

[Clown Job]

21 minutes ago, Jedi said:

There is no question from.the tone and rhetoric of the SNP echo chamber here that Labour are despised more than the Tories. When it comes to getting into bed with the Tories no less a figure than Alex Salmond relied on working with the Tories post 2007 and copying up to Annabele Goldie to get SNP policies through.

The SNP are a big business/keep the markets happy party, whose policies are designed as a sop to the middle class..whether it is Council Tax freezes, free prescriptions, low corporation taxes. They are the natural party of rural farming Scotland as that is their traditional supporter base, and don't ever want to upset the middle class applecart by implementing redistributive policies (the only one they have managed in 15 years is the Proceesds of Crime Bill).

The idea that the Labour govt from 1997-2010 did nothing to improve people's lives in the UK is incredible..minimum wage, Sure Start, record numbers of working class going to university, record investment in.health and education,. smaller class sizes, windfall taxes on private companies, a Human Rights Act, same sex marriage, lowest levels of crime for decades..to name a few.

So the argument that Labour in power have done 'nothing' for Scotlland (setting up Devolution in the first place?)...

 

Labour are the party of the Orange Order in Scotland 

[Florentine_Pogen]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It didn't need to be.  

I get as frustrated as anyone when I see disadvantaged people on telly, saying they'll vote Tory for reasons that are frankly, stupid.  

Being less interested, informed or educated than you are, however, doesn't mean someone deserves to be exploited and despised.

"But I saw some shit this morning made me think twice. See, now I'm thinking, maybe it means you're the evil man, and I'm the righteous man, and Mr. 9 Millimeter here? He's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. Now I'd like that. But that shit ain't the truth. The truth is…you're the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men. But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd."

[Boo Khaki]

20 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's pretty much fair, and explains the journey so many Scots have made.

My issue, however, was to contest the notion that Labour are as bad as this latest version of the Tories.  I maintain that such an outlook is lazy and foolish.

I've never contended they are. I said the opposite yesterday, and I certainly meant to assert that again in the post you've quoted. Apologies if I've honestly made a mess of it and implied I think they are. I do not think that at all. Like I said yesterday, all c***s are c***s, but some of them are definitely worse than others.

@JediI also utterly reject the assertion that Labour are more hated in here than the Tories. I can't stand either party because of their policies and attitudes, but there's only one I routinely find myself loathing because of the people they are. I know it's a bit 'some of my friends are black', but I do know people who still vote Labour and I totally respect their choice and I'm perfectly capable of being amiable, friendly, toward them and even carrying a degree of affection for them as people. I can't say the same for Tories. The only two I know are utterly horrendous people that our entire peer group does their best to avoid. They're not disliked primarily because they vote Tory, they are disliked because both of them are loud, obnoxious, entirely self-centred, arrogant, and regularly act like infants over the most ridiculous of perceived slights. Add all of that to the fact the revel in declaring their support for the very Tory policies that most decent people decry, and you can imagine why they are not well liked. There are a fair few Tory politicians who come across in exactly the same way, whereas even the odd Labour politician I find a bit contentious, I could still see myself sitting at table having a reasonable conversation with them without feeling inclined to throttle them simply because of how abrasive they might be.

With regard to what Labour did/has done for Scotland; I'm not denying there were positive achievements in the New Labour years. That's pretty much what I meant when I conceded that life under Blair was not as bad as the period under Thatcher and Major. However that doesn't offset or somehow absolve them of responsibility for the big things that they got completely and utterly wrong. As for setting up devolution; that would have happened regardless of who was in power at Downing street as providing Scots with an option to resolve a perceived democratic deficit would have been a requirement of the UK's continued membership of the EU. It's absolutely ridiculous for Labour to try and claim credit for that as some sort of 'gift' to Scots when it was done in sufferance, AND they tried to totally gerrymander the resultant parliament and our electoral system to entrench their own hegemony.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[BigDoddyKane]

The SNP are a big business/keep the markets happy party I would agree with that but the big difference is that once independence is achieved we can vote them out for a party that is more left wing. The SNP are a means to an end and the best option at the moment in the cirumstances we are in.

[scottsdad]

Statement at 1.30

[Michael W]

 

[Guest Jedi]

'It's an..echo chamber,  its an echo chamber,  its an...echo chamber.....all the time' 

[jamamafegan]

For me who’s a younger voter, the way I see it was that Scottish Labour destroyed their credibility when they joined forces with the Tories to campaign against Independence. Labour siding with the Tories used to be something that would be unthinkable yet they leapt into bed with them. Perhaps they could have remained neutral on the subject? Or they could have made a case for the Union alone. Instead they formed they loathsome Better Together campaign and lied to the Scottish people. f**k them IMO.

[Antlion]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

'It's an..echo chamber,  its an echo chamber,  its an...echo chamber.....all the time' 

Given you literally just ignore anything you don’t want to address and just keep attacking the same straw man instead, I’d imagine to you it would be.