Next permanent Scotland manager

[Suspect Device]

54 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't get the concern about this, he voted for same sex marriage in the initial stage, the bill passed with a huge majority so his vote wasn't needed to pass the bill, whether or not he deliberately timed his undoubtedly important meeting to avoid upsetting his Mosque and community doesn't seem like a huge issue to me. No doubt Kate Forbes will have similar problems balancing political responsibilities, faith and the opinions of her church in her political career, she could have chosen to suspend her maternity leave for a day for the GRR vote if she'd wanted, 6 months after her child was born, and launching a leadership election campaign a few weeks later.

It's just a question of honesty. I'd rather be told the truth about someone's views who I disagree with (Forbes) than be lied to by someone.

Honesty is more important to me.

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Suspect Device

[sophia]

46 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't get the concern about this, he voted for same sex marriage in the initial stage, the bill passed with a huge majority so his vote wasn't needed to pass the bill, whether or not he deliberately timed his undoubtedly important meeting to avoid upsetting his Mosque and community doesn't seem like a huge issue to me. No doubt Kate Forbes will have similar problems balancing political responsibilities, faith and the opinions of her church in her political career, she could have chosen to suspend her maternity leave for a day for the GRR vote if she'd wanted, 6 months after her child was born.

You're right, it's all so last week and most agree that it's now time to get on with debating the substantive matters in a civilised fashion. It'll only be important if Humza plays dirty on it but that is well nigh impossible as his hypocrisy would just be up there in technicolour.

 

[welshbairn]

20 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

It's just a question of honesty. I'd rather be told the truth about someone's views who I disagree with (Forbes) than be lied to by someone.

Honesty to me is more important to me.

 

Politics is about reconciling disparate views to get things done, total honesty and frankness would be toxic in any kind of negotiation. Do you honestly think Kate Forbes is being straightforward about all her beliefs?

Edited March 2, 2023 by welshbairn

[Boo Khaki]

I will listen to the remaining hustings, but I'm still of a mind that I can't reconcile voting for someone to lead my party who is openly opposed to equal marriage rights, right to chose and so on, with my membership of a party that posits itself as progressive. 

I'm not impressed with any of the candidates for various reasons, but what is leaning me toward Humza is that he is the only one who recognises the importance of challenging the S35. It's not purely the fact that I am in favour of the bill, I can not see how I am supposed to take seriously a candidate that is strident about their belief in Scots Independence, yet will happily sit back and watch a Westminster government deny the will of the democratically elected Scots Parliament. It's an untenable position for any pro-Indi FM. It must be challenged on a point of principle. The likelihood or otherwise of a successful outcome is immaterial. The only argument that holds any credence is the 'stop wasting money on this' one, but then all governments spend a bloody fortune on enacting policy, including fighting legal battles, so I don't see this as any different or any less justifiable.

Champagne moment so far is Anas Sarwar decrying the quality of the candidates. 

[Jedi2]

10 hours ago, Leith Green said:

 

The SNP should be a socialist alternative to (what passes for) Labour, not apeing them.

The SNP a 'socialist' alternative ...That's Plenty.

[wirez]

Kate Forbes or Ash Regan.

Hopefully either of them bin the coalition with the deeply unpleasant creepy Green weirdos.

 

[GTee]

Anyone still swithering on Scotland's self governance, based on a question an answer session with three candidates of a political party, who won't be around after self governance.

 

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, Suspect Device said:

Honesty is more important to me.

This.

I really don't understand why Humza would lie about something like this where he gains so little advantage. He has been the same way as minister tbh, a lack of political judgement.

If I had a vote I would spoil my ballot.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Surely I can't be the only one sceptical of SleepyCuddles' recollection when i would imagine he is almost certainly going to be favouring Ash Regan in this binfire of a contest.

[betting competition]

On 01/03/2023 at 11:41, welshbairn said:

I'm supposed on a "waitlist" for the Inverness hustings on Saturday, haven't heard anything and the venue only holds 250. No idea how they decide who gets a ticket but as I haven't exactly been active in the party I'll probably be low down the pecking order. If it's the same around the country only a small proportion of members will get to see what the candidates are about, unmitigated and filtered by journalists. They should definitely be streamed, at the very least to members only if that's possible.

I got a ticket for Aberdeen through Eventbrite although it's a decent size venue.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, betting competition said:

I got a ticket for Aberdeen through Eventbrite although it's a decent size venue.

I ended up getting one too but I probably won't go now that they're streaming them. 

P.S. Cancelled my ticket, easier than I thought. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by welshbairn

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

This.

I really don't understand why Humza would lie about something like this where he gains so little advantage. He has been the same way as minister tbh, a lack of political judgement.

If I had a vote I would spoil my ballot.

Not sure what he's supposed to have lied about. He had an important meeting at the time of the vote, nobody disputes this. Whether the timing was deliberately convenient is neither here nor there, and he voted for the bill twice before. Politics isn't always straightforward, sometimes people have to balance their own opinions with representing constituents, communities and party.

[Boo Khaki]

TBH if the Humza/Pakistani Consulate thing was a deliberate contrivance, I can almost understand it. You have to balance the benefit of continued trust and a good relationship between significant figures in the Scottish Muslim community and a significant Muslim member of the Scottish Government, v's potentially antagonising and alienating those people, and the few rare bad eggs who tend to jump straight to extremes. He has himself stated that he has received threats to his and his family's wellbeing from members of his own faith, and if that is true I would imagine the police might well have advised him to take that very seriously. I couldn't blame him if he recused himself, and I also wouldn't be remotely surprised if he was offered a convenient 'get out' by some sympathetic members of his religion.

I'm not entirely excusing Yousaf for deliberately missing a vote that was problematic for him personally, but the difference for me in respect to this and Forbes opting not to vote in the GRR bill, is that one is vocal about their support and the other open about their disapproval. You can suggest Humza is the bigger hypocrite, and I'd agree, however I still would not accept that Yousaf as FM presents the same potential threat to rights that Forbes does. It's fine and well for Forbes to say she has no plans to roll back existing laws and remove existing rights, but what about future hypotheticals? If I had to put money on which of the two I believe is most likely to deliberately stand in the way of further legislation that expands the rights of minority groups, I know which of the two that would be. "Most likely" does not mean I think it is likely, or even somewhat likely to actually happen, but I'd rather err on the side of caution and not help facilitate it in the first place.

[vikingTON]

4 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

It's fine and well for Forbes to say she has no plans to roll back existing laws and remove existing rights, but what about future hypotheticals? 

Such as?

[Highlandmagar]

9 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

The SNP a 'socialist' alternative ...That's Plenty.

More than Labour are or will ever be under Starmer and his right wing cohorts.

[vikingTON]

9 hours ago, Trogdor said:

This.

I really don't understand why Humza would lie about something like this where he gains so little advantage. He has been the same way as minister tbh, a lack of political judgement.

If I had a vote I would spoil my ballot.

Nail on the head. The issue is not really whether he voted - Forbes has also been dishonest about her stance to cling on to a ministerial position. The first issue is the clown running across a minefield attempts to justify/deny it ever happened, while trying to take the moral high ground in a leadership contest. 

The second issue is that his Continuity Sturgeon act is so devoid of ideas that this is the only point of significance in his campaign to date. Policies that were already turning Sturgeon into quite a divisive figure will stink the place out under a far less capable and ultimately spineless 'leader' like Yousaf. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by vikingTON

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

Yousaf must have thought no one would come out to contradict his false claim.

A gamble which evidently didn’t pay off.

[Suspect Device]

8 hours ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

Surely I can't be the only one sceptical of SleepyCuddles' recollection when i would imagine he is almost certainly going to be favouring Ash Regan in this binfire of a contest.

Like I said, I'm sceptical of both Salmond and Useless. I don't know which one to believe because I don't trust either of them.

Forbes has apparently been honest about something which she knew would get her flak so I would trust her (slightly) more.

 

And I don't think Salmond could believe that Regan is going to win. Does anyone think she has a chance?

Of the 3 very poor choices, I'd go for Forbes. A competent, honest 'bigot' over a couple of idiots who I wouldn't trust to organise a birthday party.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Suspect Device

[Benjamin_Nevis]

4 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

Like I said, I'm sceptical of both Salmond and Useless. I don't know which one to believe because I don't trust either of them.

Forbes has been honest about something which she knew would get her flak so I would trust her (slightly) more.

I think Forbes is getting too much credit for the "I was just being honest about my bigotry" stuff. I think it was more a case of naivety/political ineptitude.

I'd hope the next FM would be a reasonably smart political operator, so that was just stupid by Forbes. Unfortunately the other two are shite candidates as well. I suppose damningly for the opposition, whichever one of these clowns wins, they should still have enough about them to regularly get the better of Anas Sarwar and throw DRoss around the chamber like a gym towel. 

[Trogdor]

4 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

Like I said, I'm sceptical of both Salmond and Useless. I don't know which one to believe because I don't trust either of them.

Forbes has been honest about something which she knew would get her flak so I would trust her (slightly) more.

I think its fairly clear that Humza has been caught here.

He has been decidedly shifty when asked about it. Giving it the "I don't recollect a meeting" and "it was 9 years ago...". He hasn't said that Alex Neil or Alex Salmond are lying. I certainly would have if I knew I was right.

Moreover, I would have thought some big hitters would have come out to bat for him if he was telling the truth. The Deputy First Minster (NS) at the time for one. To date he has Joe Fitzpatrick who *checks notes* was the Minster sacked for the drug deaths debacle (before the parliament voted on a motion of no confidence in him) and whose contributions in parliament have been utter word salad.

It is political naivety from Humza here. He had no reason to lie. Just tell the truth, I scheduled a ministerial appointment at the time as I was under immense pressure from Muslim leaders in Scotland. In hindsight and with my experience now I wouldn't have done the same. Done and move one.

He is very likely to be the next First Minster as well and as VT highlighted his policies amount to continuity Sturgeon. Which wasn't working out too well at the end. No chance of a reset or change of direction, I'm not even sure he has the political vision for that.