Next permanent Scotland manager

[Ludo*1]

If Robertson doesn't enter then we're left with Forbes and it seems like an easy open goal with the anti-abortion & religious stuff for other parties to easily run effective smear campaigns. The thought of the other two is grim.

Any dark horses?

[ScotiaNostra]

Anyone entering could win this one, the membership could be swayed by 1 or 2 good debates

[Cheese]

27 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Tell me how the independence of India - occupied as it was by a disproportionately large number of Scots - is in any way comparable to Britain being partitioned.

Erm, the Indian sub-continent, British India was indeed partitioned. Shirley you know this ?

[Trogdor]

10 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

If Robertson doesn't enter then we're left with Forbes and it seems like an easy open goal with the anti-abortion & religious stuff for other parties to easily run effective smear campaigns. The thought of the other two is grim.

Any dark horses?

Would the limited field prompt someone at Westminster chucking their hat in the ring? Mhairi Black I'm looking at you, after your intervention on tacking to the right (which looked like a rejection of Forbes).

I still think an MP could win the vote and then engineer a space or call a Scottish election (by not nominating an FM when Sturgeon resigns).

I suspect its unlikely but you did ask about a dark horse.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, Bodie said:

Erm, the Indian sub-continent, British India was indeed partitioned. Shirley you know this ?

Not the point.  How can you compare India - which sought independence from a Scots-dominated occupation force - in any way to Britain being partitioned?

[parsforlife]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Would the limited field prompt someone at Westminster chucking their hat in the ring? Mhairi Black I'm looking at you, after your intervention on tacking to the right (which looked like a rejection of Forbes).

I still think an MP could win the vote and then engineer a space or call a Scottish election (by not nominating an FM when Sturgeon resigns).

I suspect it’s unlikely but you did ask about a dark horse.

Black would be a fantastic candidate… had she been an msp.

If they’d had been an opposition party a new leader could come from anywhere but as the long standing main party their leader needs to be FM.  

For me, given the MSP candidates we need a ‘give it to them till the end of the season’ candidate which Robertson fits well with a clear plan to get black and possibly Flynn into Holyrood to take things on long term.

[Colkitto]

I notice Ash Regan goes for the pro-independence majority at either Westminster or Holyrood election to begin negotiations with the Westminster Gov for time-frame and withdrawal of Scotland from the UK.

 

Pretty bold move, but surely won't be that easy. What happens if the UK Gov doesn't want to negotiate? Send in the tanks? 

[ScotiaNostra]

5 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

I notice Ash Regan goes for the pro-independence majority at either Westminster or Holyrood election to begin negotiations with the Westminster Gov for time-frame and withdrawal of Scotland from the UK.

 

Pretty bold move, but surely won't be that easy. What happens if the UK Gov doesn't want to negotiate? Send in the tanks? 

That could be quite a popular policy amongst the membership

Edited February 19, 2023 by ScotiaNostra

[Antlion]

21 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Not the point.  How can you compare India - which sought independence from a Scots-dominated occupation force - in any way to Britain being partitioned?

Your ethnic nationalism is showing again.

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Not the point.  How can you compare India - which sought independence from a Scots-dominated occupation force - in any way to Britain being partitioned?

I don't think Indian and Scottish independence are particularly analogous although both seek an end to Westminster ergo British rule.

It's more your disingenuous framing that I'm commenting on.

[alta-pete]

I’m picking up quite a bit of religious intolerance towards Kate Forbes based solely on her faith. 

Humza has a faith that doesn’t always align with ‘liberal progressive’ views (whatever they might be)?. Yet no-one wants to challenge that? 

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, Bodie said:

I don't think Indian and Scottish independence are particularly analogous although both seek an end to Westminster ergo British rule.

It's more your disingenuous framing that I'm commenting on.

I was being gentle.  The idea that Scots- the arch-colonisers of the 18th and 19th C - are victims a la India is beyond crass.  But is a common theme in Nat circles along with the preposterous 'self determination' trope.

 

[Antlion]

5 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

I was being gentle.  The idea that Scots- the arch-colonisers of the 18th and 19th C - are victims a la India is beyond crass.  But is a common theme in Nat circles along with the preposterous 'self determination' trope.

 

Colonialist Britons, surely - unless you’re implying that where someone happens to be born dictates their behaviour rather than the system they’re born into. (Which belief would of course be one shared by the kind of extremist far-right loons whose Tweets you seem to like sharing.)

[Cheese]

7 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

I was being gentle.  The idea that Scots- the arch-colonisers of the 18th and 19th C - are victims a la India is beyond crass.  But is a common theme in Nat circles along with the preposterous 'self determination' trope.

 

I agree that comparing Scottish independence to other often violent national liberation struggles undertaken against the deathly grip of the British Empire can get silly and thankfully doesn't happen too often. There has been some good strides made recently in Scotland with regards to educating and coming to terms with Scotland's role in the horrors of colonialism and the British Empire. We can only hope England can begin to embark on a similar journey.

Self determination isn't a trope, it's an enshrined principle of international law.

[Colkitto]

28 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

That could be quite a popular policy amongst the membership

I believe there is, to varying degrees, a lot of frustration within the SNP and the wider Yes movement at the lack of progress since the Supreme Court ruling. I say that as a huge fan of Sturgeon, but even I was feeling the frustration too.

Waiting until March to have a discussion after the ruling was not the best idea. This should have been acted on immediately as we knew what the result was going to be. 

The London Government just said no, we don't care how the people of Scotland and your parliament voted, we are going to ignore that and not agree to indyref2. 

That should have been the trigger to move and mobilize the Yes movement. Instead we didn't do anything.

Ash Regan is showing a more direct approach which as you say could be popular amongst the membership. 

Crazy to think what will happen if the pro-independence party's achieve the 50% + in the next Westminster or Holyrood election which could be just over a year away or if the Greens won't work with Regan a Holyrood election this year!   

[KirkieRR]

On 16/02/2023 at 01:40, KirkieRR said:

On 16/02/2023 at 00:20, Ray Patterson said:

Mairi McAllan would be a shout tbf - very impressed with her and she doesn't seem to have views on the Trans community from the 1800s like Cherry or Forbes

This kind of silly exaggeration really doesn't help. 

Well, well. Never been downvoted before, ever, and I trigger a wee tsunami of them for making a tame observation of the obvious.

[Trogdor]

If Gus doesn't run, is Humza the continuity candidate? 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

A decent Scotland in the Union is by far a better Scotland than a shite independent one.

We need to be independent because we are being dragged back by scumbags,  there’s absolutely no point in transforming ourselves into scumbags to just be able to declare that at least they’re Scottish scum.

 

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

f**k all interest in impressing anyone. Just want the country I live in to be one worth living in.  Can’t understand how you would want to shape our future to only choose a bad one.

What an absolute state to get yourself into, because a single politician doesn't sign up to your precise position on identity politics. 

[parsforlife]

57 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

I’m picking up quite a bit of religious intolerance towards Kate Forbes based solely on her faith. 

Humza has a faith that doesn’t always align with ‘liberal progressive’ views (whatever they might be)?. Yet no-one wants to challenge that? 

Forbes had expressed outright bigotry views and hid behind religion,  Humza as far as I’m aware hasn’t, quite the difference 

 

3 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

What an absolute state to get yourself into, because a single politician doesn't sign up to your precise position on identity politics. 

I’m not in a state, I just think we should make a stand against bigotry,   You Say it’s against 1 politician, but we are talking about 1 politician, why wouldn’t we be talking about their individual views?

 

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I didn't realise we had partitioned India. I suppose our fondness of curry should have made it obvious