🔵⚪️St Johnstone v Motherwell🟢🟤 13/05/23 3pm

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

At the game, I assumed it was because the Saints player had encroached - and weirdly that still makes that look to be case (in real time, the keeper looked fine)

Fwiw, the Motherwell Twitter feed said it was for encroachment. Well, I presume that's what they meant.

Edited May 13, 2023 by capt_oats

[Jamie_B]

7 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I got the SKY one pretty much as the ball is hit and both feet are definitely off the line.

That’s clearer but even then we can’t see where his left heel is in relation to the line because it’s blocked by his body, because the angle isn’t straight along the line. I’d suggest he’s a matter of inches forward at the most, having been in contact with the line a fraction of a second before the ball is struck.

Nobody in the stadium saw an issue with that save at the time. If he’s six yards off his line when it’s struck then absolutely fine, but using VAR for that is just absolutely pish IMO.

[thisGRAEME]

22 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

I couldn’t get the Sky video to freeze frame right on the split second Van Veen struck the ball, but here’s the images a fraction of a second either side. 
 

Are we seriously awarding retakes in this situation? He’s touching the line in the first one by the looks of it (admittedly the angles available to us - and VAR - make it impossible to be definitive here) and in the second he’s six inches ahead of the line maybe, with the ball well on its way towards the goal.

It was a fucking awful penalty and he’s been given an absolute freebie of a retake.

Big teams get decisions, Jamie.

[Jamie_B]

8 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Big teams get decisions, Jamie.

Hearts fan type attitude IMO.

I can’t wait til we’re in League One and start getting some decisions.

that said if we did end up in League One we’d have Falkirk fans telling us they’re the big team.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Jamie_Beatson

[RandomGuy.]

19 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

The shots on Sportscene tonight were clear.

I only want VAR for major errors, not millimetre marginal calls, so would be happy for that not to even be checked.

But for better or worse that's not the system ATM.

VAR just needs binned completely.

[welldaft]

On the penalty retake. It was not that long ago we had a penalty against us that was saved retaken v St Mirren when the freeze frame clearly  showed Liam Kelly foot was on the the feckin line. So I have no sympathy for the Perth Saints I am afraid.

On another note. I vividly and quite rightly remember Steve McLean scoring 4 against us in 1 game at Fir Park. However he seems out his depth as a Manager. He might be better than Callum Davidson recent form but big warning signs from me. His post match interview was lame at best. Hardly made eye contact which is just plain weird. Like a rabbit in the headlights. Big Maurice Malpas vibes from me. 

 

[Swello]

14 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

Nobody in the stadium saw an issue with that save at the time. If he’s six yards off his line when it’s struck then absolutely fine, but using VAR for that is just absolutely pish IMO.

Agree with this - it's a harsh decision and no-one on the Motherwell side would have complained about if it had been ignored. 

[RostokMcSpoons]

It's all karma for those green and brown buttons in the thread title.

 

 

 

There was a replay on the MFC TV stream (shown very late  in the match during an injury) from a better angle (presumably one that's available to VAR too) where it was actually quite obvious the goalie had jumped off his line before the ball was kicked.   I imagine the assistant ref whose job it is to watch for that, or the VAR guy would have been in a spot of bother in the post-match review if one of them hadn't raised it with the ref and just let it go "because it wasn't very much".

It was harsh, but... yeah, those colours.  Came back to bite ya

Edited May 13, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Busta Nut]

St Johnstone defender was two yards into the box regardless of where the goalie was.

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, derektaylor84 said:

After watching Sportscene just now, was the Kelle Roos penalty save for Aberdeen v Hibs checked with VAR like Matthews save today as they looked similar regarding foot on/off the line?

 

 

www.youtube.com/@DerekTaylor84

It was.

Edited May 13, 2023 by DukDukGoose

[capt_oats]

36 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

That’s clearer but even then we can’t see where his left heel is in relation to the line because it’s blocked by his body, because the angle isn’t straight along the line. I’d suggest he’s a matter of inches forward at the most, having been in contact with the line a fraction of a second before the ball is struck.

Nobody in the stadium saw an issue with that save at the time. If he’s six yards off his line when it’s struck then absolutely fine, but using VAR for that is just absolutely pish IMO.

Aye, I mean, I'm not massively disagreeing with the sentiment but given we had Bobby Madden decide this warranted a retake last season during his hate campaign against us (when Kelly's right foot was planted on the line) I'm also kind of *Tiny Violins* about it.

Edited May 13, 2023 by capt_oats

[Jamie_B]

That’s a fucking dreadful decision tbf.

There’s got to be a tolerance level here somewhere - there shouldn’t be any question at all about that one for Kelly or Matthews today given we’re talking a few inches at most. Again, if you’re running out and clearly trying to shut down the angle or whatever then yes, retake. If you’ve shuffled forward six inches just as the ball is struck then get on with it.

[welldaft]

10 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Aye, I mean, I'm not massively disagreeing with the sentiment but given we had Bobby Madden decide this warranted a retake last season during his hate campaign against us (when Kelly's right foot was planted on the line) I'm also kind of tiny violins about it.

I can only assume I am on block given I posted the exact same point  But without the pictures….

Edited May 13, 2023 by welldaft

[RostokMcSpoons]

Here's a view shown straight after the first pen was saved - not as clear as the second view that I mentioned previously perhaps - but that'll be harder to find, so this'll have to do



That's not just inches but a whole foot ahead of the line.  He's supposed to be going sideways, not forwards, so ... gotta draw the line somewhere (and it's the goal line they've... already... drawn)

Edited May 13, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[capt_oats]

3 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I can only assume I am on block given I posted the exact same point  But without the pictures….

Nah, I didn't see your reply. I just replied to Jamie's post quoting me. I was digging out the pictures from the thread from the St Mirren game when you posted.

[Jamie_B]

3 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Here's a view shown straight after the first pen was saved - not as clear as the second view that I mentioned previously perhaps - but that'll be harder to find, so this'll have to do



That's not just inches but a whole foot ahead of the line.  He's supposed to be going sideways, not forwards, so ... gotta draw the line somewhere (and it's the goal line they've... already... drawn)

Behind the goal is absolutely never the angle to use for these to be fair - y back when VAR first came in there was a whole load of these kinds of decisions where people were saying they looked miles off their line from the behind the goal images just because of the perspective of it.

As much as anything you’re seeing the grass right up to his toes there as he goes to spring forward. Ultimately, if people want VAR to be making game changing decisions on such minuscule margins on things that nobody in the stadium saw at the time I’d suggest that isn’t what it *should* be for, if we’re going to have it at all.

To return to an earlier point - I was also surprised at the lack of protest of the initial award and the retake. That lack of fight kind of summed up the way we played the rest of the second half after the retake went in.

[Kapowzer]

56 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

If he’s six yards off his line when it’s struck then absolutely fine, but using VAR for that is just absolutely pish IMO.

If he was he’s be 5ft further on than he was. In both instances a retake before you get everyone else being fly around the box.

Hope you stay up.

That is all.

[Hawkeye the Gnu]

Given the number of dubious decisions you lot have had against us this season. Sorry, but no sympathy. Karma, as they say, but no doubt you’ll get another dodgy decision in your favour next week.

[Theyellowbox]

7 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

To return to an earlier point - I was also surprised at the lack of protest of the initial award and the retake. That lack of fight kind of summed up the way we played the rest of the second half after the retake went in.

The lack of fight is the most disheartening thing. This team is a bunch of lightweight shitebags when it comes to being up for the fight.

In the past, we have had players with limited abilities, but in the last 10-15 years, never as many with such little heart.

I was surprised at how little arguing there was over a relatively soft penalty and retake. Being in the refs face over the initial award would have an influence on future decisions if there is a degree of doubt in ref and VAR officials mind. 

That lands squarely on the 'type' of player we have recruited. Guys who do not see it as their responsibility or fight to keep the club up. Too many end of career journeymen and never will be's.

 

[Jamie_B]

2 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

That lands squarely on the 'type' of player we have recruited. Guys who do not see it as their responsibility or fight to keep the club up. Too many end of career journeymen and never will be's.

 

Absolutely the crux of it for me.