The Death Penalty

[ScotiaNostra]

Never been on Jury duty but think Id probably end up like Arthur Spooner

 

 

[Newbornbairn]

In Japan, they don't give the condemned man a date for the execution. One day they just show up and do it. It means he wakes up every day not knowing if it's going to be his last. (same as the rest of us in a way)

[Boo Khaki]

6 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

In Japan, they don't give the condemned man a date for the execution. One day they just show up and do it. It means he wakes up every day not knowing if it's going to be his last. (same as the rest of us in a way)

I would have thought they'd be more into 'pistol and a glass of brandy, retire to study', but with some sort of traditional sword instead of a pistol.

[Newbornbairn]

12 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

In Japan, they don't give the condemned man a date for the execution. One day they just show up and do it. It means he wakes up every day not knowing if it's going to be his last. (same as the rest of us in a way)

Quote

In Japan, until the 1970s, the date of execution was announced to the condemned prisoner before the execution. However, because there were cases of death row inmates committing suicide before the execution, the method was changed to one or two hours before the execution to ensure the emotional stability of the inmate.[19] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Japan#:~:text=Since 2000%2C 98 inmates have,death row inmates awaiting execution.

 

[Boo Khaki]

Hmm... No sure I follow the logic of expecting someone to be more emotionally stable having been told they are going to be executed in an hour, v's being told they are going to be executed in a month's time.

Slightly different scenario, but what often perplexes the relatives of people who commit suicide is frequently they are described as being perfectly calm and rational for days or weeks before the event. This is because people who have suicidal ideation are often more disturbed by the ideation itself, and by the time they've actually planned everything out, they can be quite tranquil about the prospect of not being alive any more.

I'd imagine if you know you are for the chop, and you know when, you'd get to grips with the idea fairly quickly.

[hk blues]

1 hour ago, Richey Edwards said:

My career has occasionally necessitated working with people who have done some really horrible things - including murder. I had (and still do have) a professional obligation as a mental health professional to work with them. Obviously I found their crimes abhorrent but I would have been in a lot of trouble if I had refused to work with them or treated them badly.

Not really the same thing though as hoping some random prisoner hands out the 'punishment.' 

[TheScarf]

59 minutes ago, GAD said:

I was once on a jury where one woman's reason for finding the guy guilty was "no smoke without fire".

[hk blues]

1 hour ago, stimpy said:

I've had discussions with people who are pro death penalty for extreme cases and when I ask where their line is their answers are usually the same. The line is drawn just above where they think they could potentially take a life. This line is just above a drunk driver killing someone. I will argue that a life is a life and if you drink heaps and get behind the wheel then that's more than an accident. While none of us would drink and drive you could potentially given the right circumstances find yourself in that position. The death penalty only works if you do it to other people. 

Yep...and that's why I said in my earlier post that I'm not against it for very specific cases which would be quite exceptional but I'm unable to say where the line would be drawn because there are variables - a far greater set of minds than mine would need to make that judgement.  In Japan,  for example, the death penalty can be handed down for multiple murders or aggravated single murders - that seems to me to be open to a lot of interpretation.  

[Johnny Martin]

Travesties of justice take place.

For me, one innocent person wrongly being put to death is worse than 100 getting away with it.  

We can't take the chance.

[jaybeee]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Martin said:

Travesties of justice take place.

For me, one innocent person wrongly being put to death is worse than 100 getting away with it.  

We can't take the chance.

how about 100 people have a terminal disease, which will prove fatal to all but with undefined timelines, then this new medicine has been developed, with just one slight flaw, due to some ..................unexplained circumstance, it always on testing has a 1% mortality rate, what would you do?

 

[Soapy FFC]

2 minutes ago, jaybeee said:

how about 100 people have a terminal disease, which will prove fatal to all but with undefined timelines, then this new medicine has been developed, with just one slight flaw, due to some ..................unexplained circumstance, it always on testing has a 1% mortality rate, what would you do?

 

I would like to think drug trials are all carried out on volunteers and the risks/benefits of the trial are explained to them before hand. Being found guilty when innocent is not a personal choice.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Soapy FFC

[jaybeee]

1 minute ago, Soapy FFC said:

I would like to think drug trail are all carried out on volunteers and the risks/benefits of the trail are explained to them before hand. Being found guilty when innocent is not a personal choice.

i  think you are deliberately missing my point which is that rationally if a cure is available for 99 of the 100 then surely if is worth the 1% failure rate

 

[coprolite]

Just now, jaybeee said:

i  think you are deliberately missing my point which is that rationally if a cure is available for 99 of the 100 then surely if is worth the 1% failure rate

 

It’s quite an easy point to miss, what with being completely irrelevant. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

2 hours ago, GordonD said:

The judge at the trial of either the Birmingham Six or the Guildford Four (I forget which) said when passing sentence that he wished the death penalty was still in existence as he would have no hesitation in applying it. Of course a few years down the line it turned out they were all innocent and were released from prison. If the doddering old git had got his way that wouldn't have been possible.

So no, never.

Big team found. 

1 hour ago, Hedgecutter said:

Make them think they're getting the lethal injection simply for the mental trauma that brings (you're aware of nothing when you're dead, so that part's not a punishment), but then 'reduce' it to a life sentence without parole, just for the double whammy.  That said, you'd need to kill the occasional one for it to work, wouldn't you. 

Or inject them with Tippex. I mean they are in a correctional facility after all.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Snobot said:

Yes I am, for treason and murder.

I only clicked this thread hoping to see Partridge, first page!

[stimpy]

I think it boils down to whether you want justice or vengeance. 

You ofter hear victims or their families say they just wanted the wrong to be recognised and someone held accountable in law. 

Christian Americans love quoting the old testament without a hint of irony. 

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said:

However, because there were cases of death row inmates committing suicide before the execution, the method was changed to one or two hours before the execution to ensure the emotional stability of the inmate.

Fair enough.

I know I'd definitely be emotionally stable if someone came up to me and told me they would be killing me in an hour's time

[coprolite]

3 minutes ago, stimpy said:

I think it boils down to whether you want justice or vengeance. 

You ofter hear victims or their families say they just wanted the wrong to be recognised and someone held accountable in law. 

Christian Americans love quoting the old testament without a hint of irony. 

I don't think it's wrong to include an element of venegance or retribution in the concept of justice. 

Deuternomy 23-1 puts it quite succinctly, if you have a good translation. 

[stimpy]

8 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I don't think it's wrong to include an element of venegance or retribution in the concept of justice. 

Deuternomy 23-1 puts it quite succinctly, if you have a good translation. 

The extreme edges of vengeance is everyone taking the law into their own hands. The death penalty is part of that imo, look at the abuses of the "stand your ground" law in Texas. 

[coprolite]

5 minutes ago, stimpy said:

The extreme edges of vengeance is everyone taking the law into their own hands. The death penalty is part of that imo, look at the abuses of the "stand your ground" law in Texas. 

I’m not suggesting everyone should go full Death Wish, but the concept of some element of punishment is central to a lot of people’s conception of justice, eye for an eye, karma etc.

I think that should be catered for in a justice system, although prevention and rehabilitation should be more important.