Dundee United v Queen’s Park - Saturday 30 September 2023 at 3.00pm

[Gibby82]

Queens Park not a bad side but that defensive high line was mental, a pacy striker would have run riot. Watt is certainly not that, looks like he's towing a caravan, but took his goals well.

[Dave]

I don't even think it was the high line that fucked us today, it was the inability to defend a cross into the box, either from the wing that it came from or the opposite wing it was going to.

A great goal scored inside a minute, but it was too much too soon. We battled well for the first 20 mins, but after that the pressure that we allowed Dundee Utd to put on us would eventually tell. How we got to half time without Thomson sent off btw I'll never know.

Second half we just stopped caring to defend the wings. Both full backs were utterly terrible, and we failed to create any chances until we subbed on 18 year old Liam McLeish who had two half chances in the 90th minute.

Unless we somehow find some magical free agents no-one else is aware of, or we show a serious, drastic change in tactics (which I think we did in spells today, but in the end we were humped) then I am really beginning to fear for us.

 

 

[Bring Your Own Socks]

My MotM for today is….Jim Goodwin. Spotted where the gaps were and his players exploited it perfectly. The slick and accurate passing and fast and aggressive breaks are what Veldman would like his side to be like. Quite literally, men against boys. I don’t see it changing much this season with the squad we have. 

Enjoyed my first ever trip to Tannadice. You’ve made an old stadium into a very decent football arena with a good atmosphere. Far too good for this league, on and off the pitch. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Bring Your Own Socks

[Dundee Hibernian]

5 minutes ago, Dave said:

Both full backs were utterly terrible

I don't think Robson was terrible, the players to my mind that let you down were the central defenders. QP have quite a few decent players, but it looked, to my untrained eye, that they were freestyling rather than playing to a team plan. 

Middleton had his best game for a while for United (not too hard), Sibbald was decent, but that United side seems quite negative to me, one which would be torn up for shite paper by a well organised outfit.

I was pleased to see QP in their traditional outfits though, being a tradition connoisseur.

 

[Granny Danger]

27 minutes ago, Gibby82 said:

Queens Park not a bad side but that defensive high line was mental, a pacy striker would have run riot. Watt is certainly not that, looks like he's towing a caravan, but took his goals well.

Watt is still going down too often and too easily, I think it’s having a negative effect on the referees.  There was a foul on him in the second half that was a stick on but waved off by the ref, Cant help but thing it was because of previous antics.

As you say took his goals well.

[Gibby82]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Watt is still going down too often and too easily, I think it’s having a negative effect on the referees.  There was a foul on him in the second half that was a stick on but waved off by the ref, Cant help but thing it was because of previous antics.

As you say took his goals well.

Aye, his card has been marked by the referees for a long time.

[Skeletar Spider]

We were three points away from winning the title last season The supporters are being taken for an absolute ride.

[Zanetti]

22 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I was pleased to see QP in their traditional outfits though, being a tradition connoisseur.

Sadly these kits are nothing like our traditional shirts. The hoops don't go all the way around and they're Celtic-esque in size. Another thing the club has made an arse of recently.

[Skeletar Spider]

1 hour ago, Pull My Strings said:

but Queens just kept trying to play the right way.

Conceding twelve in three games and losing five on the bounce would suggest we're not trying particularly hard at playing 'the right way', assuming the sport we're talking about is actually football.

Everyone would rather their team played good football, if the results are there - our promotion-winning team from 2007 under Billy Stark has legendary status that Gus MacPherson's team from 2016 could never have had - but blindly sticking to a style of play which you're convinced is the way football should be played when your team clearly isn't capable of playing that way and getting results is just pigheaded arrogance.

For the first time in the club's history we now find ourselves in a position where we're not actively looking to bring in the best possible set of players we can to make up the squad or to find a way of playing that is most likely to get results. And that isn't worth paying to go and see.

[Dundee Hibernian]

10 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

Sadly these kits are nothing like our traditional shirts. The hoops don't go all the way around and they're Celtic-esque in size. Another thing the club has made an arse of recently.

I see what you mean, but you'd probably get fined if your numbers lacked clarity, while Celtic would not.

And the hoops looked ok to me,

a wee bit wider,

though not quite a spider ('s legs).

Get with it baby, it's the 'nineties.

[Pull My Strings]

11 minutes ago, Skeletar Spider said:

Conceding twelve in three games and losing five on the bounce would suggest we're not trying particularly hard at playing 'the right way', assuming the sport we're talking about is actually football.

Everyone would rather their team played good football, if the results are there - our promotion-winning team from 2007 under Billy Stark has legendary status that Gus MacPherson's team from 2016 could never have had - but blindly sticking to a style of play which you're convinced is the way football should be played when your team clearly isn't capable of playing that way and getting results is just pigheaded arrogance.

For the first time in the club's history we now find ourselves in a position where we're not actively looking to bring in the best possible set of players we can to make up the squad or to find a way of playing that is most likely to get results. And that isn't worth paying to go and see.

Ach, I don't disagree with any of that. Just saying that (i) you guys were clearly trying to play football in the right manner, without being c***s (unlike some other teams) and (ii) [the subtext] that's much appreciated, thanks; it's obviously easier to win when the opposition are good sports. For what little it's worth, I sincerely hope you do well (but I share your reservations).

[Steven W]

A strange game in some ways today. Queens started really well and for that first twenty minutes gave us something of a chasing, whilst playing a brand of football that was very easy on the eye.

If after twenty minutes you'd told me Utd would go on to win 4-1, with a deserving margin of victory I'd have found it hard to believe. Argument for saying that Glass' pass at the first goal was the point that the game changed.

Was a bit disappointing to see so many Utd fans leave before the final whistle (but can understand why folk do)

[Bring Your Own Socks]

3 hours ago, Skeletar Spider said:

Conceding twelve in three games and losing five on the bounce would suggest we're not trying particularly hard at playing 'the right way', assuming the sport we're talking about is actually football.

Everyone would rather their team played good football, if the results are there - our promotion-winning team from 2007 under Billy Stark has legendary status that Gus MacPherson's team from 2016 could never have had - but blindly sticking to a style of play which you're convinced is the way football should be played when your team clearly isn't capable of playing that way and getting results is just pigheaded arrogance.

For the first time in the club's history we now find ourselves in a position where we're not actively looking to bring in the best possible set of players we can to make up the squad or to find a way of playing that is most likely to get results. And that isn't worth paying to go and see.

Not challenging anything there but just as balance, Stark’s legends were the culmination of 3 season’s hard work. I’m beginning to wonder if Beuker’s sold Veldman a puppy here. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Bring Your Own Socks

[Bring Your Own Socks]

3 hours ago, Dave said:

Second half we just stopped caring to defend the wings. Both full backs were utterly terrible, and we failed to create any chances until we subbed on 18 year old Liam McLeish who had two half chances in the 90th minute.

Both full backs were let down by their wing partners. Goodwin had spotted the gaps in the corners and overloaded both wings. When Veldman mentioned they had been working on a stronger back line this was what he meant and the solution was to have our two wing forwards tracking to support the wing backs. Presumably they all bought into this on the training ground but today both Hepburn, in particular, and Thomas failed to do their bit. That’s why after the second goal Thomas started ranting at Ferrie and then had a debate with Veldman in the middle of the pitch and after the third Ferrie went chasing Hepburn shouting at him. 

The other big factor in both goals was the pace and direction of the crosses, both identical. By comparison, our wingers seldom get any pace on the ball and seem to find it easier to find an opponent than one of our guys. Longridge had six separate attempts at crossing from the right, unchallenged, and failed to get the ball past the first man each time.

So in Veldman’s head he’s agreeing things with players through the week and they’re not happening on matchday. It’s catch 22. At some point the players and the coach are all going to have to come to terms with just exactly what they are all capable of. Just saying yes to please the boss never ends up well.

[captainkev]

5 hours ago, Pull My Strings said:

Dunno. Holt did well to win a challenge and play the ball forward but it broke to a Queens' player and then it was one good ball forward, quick cross and tidy finish from the edge of the box. Every goal's preventable but that looked more like good attacking play than poor defending to me.

Could be wrong though.

That was pretty much my take on the QP goal too. Holt had done the right thing coming forward to clear initially and because the rest of the defence were all pushed a little too high up there was space for them to exploit. It wasn't calamitous defending by any means, just a well worked goal. Our crowd at least seemed to recognise that and the response to falling behind was pretty positive for a change. The only rumblings of discontent started about 25 mins in when there was a spell where we couldn't seem to get near them.

Edited September 30, 2023 by captainkev

[Cardle is Magic]

5 hours ago, Pull My Strings said:

From an opposition fan's perspective, I was impressed with Queens Park. Tried to play football throughout and kept going right to the end. A more cynical team might have tried to kill the game at 1-0 or even 1-1 but Queens just kept trying to play the right way. There was no diving, feigning injury, time wasting, wrestling, kicking, etc. It was refreshing. Made for an open, honest game. Very good goal for Queens too. Good attacking play rather than poor defending,  imo.

Gold standard condescending birthday caird pish here tbh.

[Sarto Mutiny]

I think it's fair enough to recognise that the way Queen's Park play really suited us, as we have struggled against teams who have sat in and/or tried to shithouse the game - QP were not likely to do either. Whether they should have altered their style of play given who they were playing is a matter for them - as others have identified, they probably don't have the players to do it. It seemed a bit naive of them tbh, and as much as I wish them well, I doubt that style will serve them well most of the time in this league.

[QPSpider1867]

Veldman has taken a side 3 points from being champions to a weak light touch pushover. We look very young, very naive and totally lost when the games heat up. 

Beuker has had an absolute howler here, replacing Coyle with this guy is a shambles. 

Beuker also needs to check his summer recruitment and squad depth, very very poor. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by QPSpider1867

[an86]

We’re in serious trouble.

[qpfc]

Never expected a result in any scenario yesterday but as much as Veldman is quite rightly taking pelters for this season, i can’t help but be incredibly disappointed with Beuker’s contribution throughout the summer. A guy who comes across supremely confident (maybe too confident given his recruitment this summer) in his ability to recruit a squad that would bring exciting and dominant football. This was the first summer where I think Beuker had a full grip on things in terms of his vision of the club from top to bottom and as a fan, I was excited to see what he could produce 
 

Firstly, I had no doubts or anger that we’d have to take a step back from last season but the contrast to go from 90 minutes away from the premiership to a side that is now more than capable of finishing 10th in such a short space of time is embarrassing considering we’re not short of a penny. Cannot believe he didn’t sign anyone across the September loan window, genuinely astounding borderline negligent given the severe shortage of depth beyond a first eleven that looks bereft of confidence. 
 

We can go on about tactics for as long as we want to but what’s became abundantly clear already in October is that the club are most likely paying very generous wages on a multi year contract to a glorified Laurie Ellis 2.0. Worryingly, in recent interviews when talking about the opposition or even our own team, Veldman is always referring to experience and the importance of it. It’s almost as if he’s now realising that playing a high quantity of kids with zero first team experience was a bad idea… 

Edited October 1, 2023 by qpfc