Killing your spouse - thoughts?

[Sortmeout]

No no, not me. 
 

I was scrolling through X/Twitter there and saw a news story about a guy who had hired a hitman (America obviously) to kill his wife.

Why do people do that? I understand and assume that on occasion it would be for financial gain via an insurance policy pay-out etc but I cannot understand the people that do it who just don’t want to married to their partner anymore.

Why would anyone decide that was the best course of action instead of just separating and moving on? Of course there are evil people out there but some of these crimes must just be out of complete exasperation with the other person/the situation so why wouldn’t you just leave? Surely you would understand that dealing with the fallout from that would be better than the other option? 

[Florentine_Pogen]

[kingjoey]

6 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

No no, not me. 
 

I was scrolling through X/Twitter there and saw a news story about a guy who had hired a hitman (America obviously) to kill his wife.

Why do people do that? I understand and assume that on occasion it would be for financial gain via an insurance policy pay-out etc but I cannot understand the people that do it who just don’t want to married to their partner anymore.

Why would anyone decide that was the best course of action instead of just separating and moving on? Of course there are evil people out there but some of these crimes must just be out of complete exasperation with the other person/the situation so why wouldn’t you just leave? Surely you would understand that dealing with the fallout from that would be better than the other option? 

You’ve answered your own question by saying it was in America.

[Peil]

9 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

No no, not me. 
 

I was scrolling through X/Twitter there and saw a news story about a guy who had hired a hitman (America obviously) to kill his wife.

Why do people do that? I understand and assume that on occasion it would be for financial gain via an insurance policy pay-out etc but I cannot understand the people that do it who just don’t want to married to their partner anymore.

Why would anyone decide that was the best course of action instead of just separating and moving on? Of course there are evil people out there but some of these crimes must just be out of complete exasperation with the other person/the situation so why wouldn’t you just leave? Surely you would understand that dealing with the fallout from that would be better than the other option? 

Insurance or some other inheritance I would guess.

Plus i'd imagine there's a slightly higher chance of a sympathy w**k as a widower rather than as a divorcee

Edited November 15, 2023 by Peil

[Sortmeout]

Just now, Peil said:

Insurance or some other inheritance I would guess.

Plus i'd magine there's a slightly higher chance of a sympathy w**k as a widower rather than as a divorcee

Not sure if you were on the old Tinder or whatever the kids are using these days I think having “widower” would make you seem really old.

[Peil]

Just now, Sortmeout said:

Not sure if you were on the old Tinder or whatever the kids are using these days I think having “widower” would make you seem really old.

Fair point, I'm out of touch with the things

[carpetmonster]

5 minutes ago, Peil said:

 

Plus i'd magine there's a slightly higher chance of a sympathy w**k as a widower rather than as a divorcee

Between them Laurence Fox and leccy motor fud have probably saved a good few marriages just from the bloke thinking 'I don't want that to be me' 

Edited November 15, 2023 by carpetmonster

[Derry Alli]

Just now, Peil said:

Plus i'd imagine there's a slightly higher chance of a sympathy w**k as a widower rather than as a divorcee

[Molotov]

@Sortmeout is a weird individual.

OFTW

[Sortmeout]

1 minute ago, Molotov said:

@Sortmeout is a weird individual.

OFTW

Bit harsh.

[Cheese]

[ICTChris]

My dad was a witness in a recent trial where William McDowall was convicted or murdering Renee MacRae, his lover, and their four year old son. Obviously Renee wasn’t his spouse but she was his long term lover - they had an affair over several years.

McDowall never admitted his guilt and died not long after his conviction so we don’t know for certain why he did it but he had lead Renee to think that he was going to leave his wife and family to come and live with her. This would have meant McDowall losing his family, losing their large home, losing his well paid job (Renee was his bosses estranged wife). So he told Renee he’d got a job in Shetland in the oil industry, that he would divorce his wife and they would live there as a family. In the meantime he told her he’d booked a weekend holiday together, and to bring their son so he could bond with him. Then in a lay-by on the A9, he murdered them both and disposed of their bodies, which have never been found.  Some of the police think that he burned the bodies in the boot of his car and then scattered the ashes in the countryside, making them impossible to find.

He wanted to have a simultaneous relationship with Renee and have his family life. He wanted to keep all that and lied to maintain it. When it became clear that Renee threatened it, rather than take a course of action that would require some moral courage - leave his wife, break up the relationship with Renee - he took a course of action that meant he benefited him most, even though this meant murdering two people, one of whom was his own child, a boy of three.

Men who murder their spouses in this way all want to have everything they want but don’t want to pay for it, so to speak. He could have made a sacrifice but didn’t want to so sacrificed others in the most callous way imaginable. Obviously many, maybe most, domestic killings are done in anger or as culminations of horrific violence but there are always men who calculate that committing acts of horror will get them what they want. Other high profile examples you can find are the Watts family annihilation murders or the murder of Lynette Dawson in Australia. 

[TxRover]

37 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

No no, not me. 
 

I was scrolling through X/Twitter there and saw a news story about a guy who had hired a hitman (America obviously) to kill his wife.

Why do people do that? I understand and assume that on occasion it would be for financial gain via an insurance policy pay-out etc but I cannot understand the people that do it who just don’t want to married to their partner anymore.

Why would anyone decide that was the best course of action instead of just separating and moving on? Of course there are evil people out there but some of these crimes must just be out of complete exasperation with the other person/the situation so why wouldn’t you just leave? Surely you would understand that dealing with the fallout from that would be better than the other option? 

In 'Merica you have several considerations:

1) Community Property State? In 9 or 10 (Alaska allow you to opt in) states, including Texas and California, the basic principle is everything acquired during the marriage is split 50/50...property, retirement and bank accounts, debts, etc. In the others, the rule is equitable distribution, where the judge has discretion on the division.

2) Prenup? If you have one, it's probably enforceable, but certain things can change that (criminal activity, fraud, domestic violence, etc)

3) No fault divorce rules. 18 states limit your ability to allege various items as a reason for the divorce, potentially meaning you will have to surrender more property/money.

4) Unwillingness of one party to agree to divorce terms. It becomes expensive very quickly when lawyers are dueling and exchanging papers. Even with mediation, $10,000-$15,000 each is a common starting point for a contested divorce, with "simple" ones starting at $5,000 for both. I know one divorce between two high wealth individuals where a dog cost $20,000 in lawyers fees and a $150,000 payment from wife to husband to settle custody.

5) Time. A divorce will take at least 6 months, and on average extends more than 12 months.

6) Vindictive exes. Its pretty simple for a vindictive ex to hit your credit, which increases you insurance rates, your cost to buy another house, possibly blocks you from renting some places, etc.

7) Allegations of criminal activity. Self explanitory.

 As you mentioned, life insurance.

[ICTChris]

Andrew and Renee Macrae

[eindhovendee]

10 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Andrew and Renee Macrae

The documentary of the trial is on BBC iplayer. It's worth a watch.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0g1cvxd/murder-trial-the-disappearance-of-renee-and-andrew-macrae-episode-1

[welshbairn]

I think it's similar to suicide when you feel you're trapped in a situation you can't get out of, whilst anyone thinking rationally could draw you a simple map. Massively more cowardly and destructive of course. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by welshbairn

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

25 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Andrew and Renee Macrae

Do you know if everyone knew it was him all along or did it come as a big surprise?

[ICTChris]

3 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

Do you know if everyone knew it was him all along or did it come as a big surprise?

I think as soon as the details came out it was pretty obvious. Obviously legally it’s more difficult to get a conviction, hence the 45 year wait.

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

Then in a lay-by on the A9, he murdered them both and disposed of their bodies, which have never been found.  Some of the police think that he burned the bodies in the boot of his car and then scattered the ashes in the countryside, making them impossible to find.

That sounds unlikely - he'd have needed loads of time uninterrupted, a 1500°F fire that stayed around that temperature for a good four hours or so, and implements to grind the bones once they'd cooled after another few hours.

According to a mate.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

2 hours ago, TxRover said:

In 'Merica you have several considerations:

6) Vindictive exes. Its pretty simple for a vindictive ex to hit your credit, which increases you insurance rates, your cost to buy another house, possibly blocks you from renting some places, etc.

 

This actually rings true; cant mind all the ins and outs of it but I vividly mind someone I worked with years ago that split with his partner, who was the one that managed all the household finances. He claimed to have, shortly after they'd agreed to separate, been stopped by the police while out driving and was done for not having any insurance on the car; the gist was that she had cancelled the car insurance policy without telling him...

 

Anyway - this happened not far away from my folks house, effectively got off on a technicality;

https://www.helensburghadvertiser.co.uk/news/13976360.killer-to-wed/

4 - 5 years of jail time served before meeting a new squeeze through online dating. Hm.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Thistle_do_nicely