Artificial pitch vote

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, Gorgie greatness said:

You only got shipped from the top flight once followed by a visit to the Seasiders. 

Your point being?

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

Aye, because folk in and outside of Scotland are focused on league one games!

Who gives a flying f*ck what people outside of Scotland think about our football??? We've to rip out perfectly good surfaces, end long-term groundshares with other men's and women's teams, cut revenue for low-income clubs and increase costs so Barry down the Dog and Duck isn't subjected to a plastic pitch for the Celtic/Rangers away game he's not watching while he's waiting for the Barclays?

[HoBNob]

11 hours ago, Swello said:

Did Dunfermline not have one for a while? (it was a weird carpet tile job IIRC). Maybe it was a cup game I'm remembering as we've not played them in the 2nd tier.

Aye we had one first, the first pitch was awful and was individual tiles, the second pitch was actually quite good. 

[10menwent2mow]

5 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

 Much easier to maintain with the growing lights etc. 

Aye, I'm sure those growing lights cone cheaply to purchase and operate. If clubs who own them want to invest in these systems and undersoil heating and expensive sprinkler systems to maintain their grass pitches, then fine. But don't prevent other clubs who have invested in artificial surfaces and had to maintain them to a high enough standard, while also investing in the community, groundshares etc etc from becoming part of the Top League. It's utter nonsense. 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

i remember the. the Covid season that Raith’s pitch looked better and appeared to function better than I expected  having seen Livingston and Hamilton’s versions

is it a different product? , Do they put more work into maintaining it? or was it just that covid meant that nobody else was using it?

 

[Monkey socks]

I dislike artificial pitches even although my own club has one. The vote to ban in the top league by only consulting the 12 clubs in the SPFL is elitist , unfair and smacks of a closed door boys club.

If passed, what would happen  if say, Livi, Falkirk, Accies and Raith Rovers finished in the top 4 places ( arrange  them in any order you like) in the Championship. Will this render the play offs redundant and save the bottom 2 SPFL teams from relegation?.   Bear in mind that this could happen for more than 1 season until the finance to install undersoil heating and grass pitches is obtained. How many fans will go and support their team in the knowledge that promotion is not going to happen?

The baw's on the slates if they pass this nonsense. There's room for both surfaces in the financial desert that is Scottish football.

Edited May 22 by Monkey socks

[Cptn Hooch]

19 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Ours is fucking brilliant, and I'm sure Airdrie's is too.

Why should we (ourselves and Airdrie, as an example) be disallowed promotion because some others were dud?

Our pitch meets the Fifa PRO Quality criteria which is the highest standard. 

From FIFA:

Quote

The development of the standard

The benchmark for testing from the start is a natural grass pitch in good condition. The artificial surface is only awarded one of the FIFA quality marks and called football turf if it meets the requirements set out in the Handbook of Requirements.

A stringent two-phase testing procedure, which includes testing the product in the laboratory and testing the final installation, ensures that the football turf meets the requirements for playing performance, safety, durability and quality assurance. Both testing phases focus on:

• Interaction between the player and the surface

• Interaction between the ball and the surface

• Product composition

• Weather resistance

• Seam strength

• Service life

By comparing the results of both tests, you can be sure that the field of play fulfils exactly the same requirements as set out by the FIFA Quality Programme. If both tests are passed, FIFA awards the final installation either the FIFA QUALITY or the FIFA QUALITY PRO mark.

 

 

I believe ours is the exact same as raith with one aesthetic exception...they have green pellets and we have black

[GNU_Linux]

Joint statement by some diddies who don't know their place
 

Quote

In response to the proposal to ban artificial playing surfaces in the Scottish Premiership, over the past few months we have sought constructive dialogue with both the SPFL Competitions Working Group (CWG) and directly with Scottish Premiership clubs.

 

We have done so because we believe the proposal to be fundamentally flawed on a number of levels and, if approved, will cause significant long-term damage to Scottish football by undermining sporting integrity, impacting the wider game and creating huge financial entry barriers to the top league.

 

 

 

We unreservedly support the Premiership clubs desire to ensure that playing surfaces are always of a high quality, so worked together to create what we believe to be a constructive and well-considered alternative proposal, which we are publishing today.

We recently had the opportunity to present our ideas to both the Competitions Working Group and those Premiership clubs not involved in the CWG, and we thank them for taking the time to listen to us.

We are, however, disappointed to learn that the Premiership clubs intend to proceed to a vote on a blanket ban of artificial surfaces from season 2026/27, and that none of the elements of our alternative proposal have been adopted or incorporated into their final proposal.

We are publishing our paper today to promote a public debate on the subject. Our view is that this decision is poorly thought through, and we do not believe it is acceptable for just twelve clubs to make this decision, which could have a long-lasting and negative impact on Scottish football, as serious as the ill-fated 10,000-seat stadium rule.

We believe that all clubs with the ability and ambition to reach the Premiership should be encouraged to do so, without having unnecessary barriers being created to demotivate and disincentivise them.

Scotland is the world’s most northerly non-Arctic nation, and our climate simply isn’t always conducive to having perfect grass pitches due to high levels of rainfall, minimal sunshine,and high cloud coverage. The costs associated with achieving the highest possible standard of grass pitches, year-round, could be more than £750k per annum, with a large percentage of this attributed to the electricity required to fuel grass growth lamps. It is therefore very difficult for the majority of Scottish clubs to achieve the highest possible standard of playing surface, as it is cost prohibitive. There’s no question that a top-quality, UEFA-approved artificial surface is far superior, in every respect, than a sub-standard grass pitch, which we routinely see in the winter months of Scottish football.

We would ask fans and supporter groups of all clubs to read our paper and to make their views known to their respective clubs. We believe our recommendations to be reasonable, practical, and proportionate to solving the issue the Premiership clubs wish to address.

These include strict criteria around the age and quality of artificial pitches in the Premiership, significantly reduced usage, and a robust testing regime on a par with the standards required by UEFA for the Champions League, ensuring they always conform to the highest approved standards.

Such criteria go far beyond quality standards currently in place for artificial surfaces, so a significant improvement in pitch quality would be achieved immediately. There are no quality standards currently in place for grass pitches in the Premiership.

Should Premiership clubs choose to go ahead and vote for a blanket ban on all artificial surfaces, we call upon them to create a fund to support any club which achieves promotion to the Premiership, to cover the cost of implementing the level of grass pitch they expect, which could cost in the region of £1.2m-£1.5m.

The anticipated uplift in UEFA solidarity payments, currently circa £6m and expected to rise above £10m, 100% of which currently goes to Premiership clubs exclusively, would appear to be a ready-made source for the funding of such an initiative. Other countries such as Germany have already gained UEFA’s consent to distribute solidarity monies below their top league, to improve the flow of funds within their game.

The Dutch League has also introduced a grant fund, paid for by those clubs participating in European competitions, which all clubs can apply for to ensure a higher standard of grass pitch in their top league. We call upon Scottish Premiership clubs to follow this example.

Clubs with artificial surfaces have invested huge sums of money into the installation of pitches and infrastructure, at a time when the artificial pitches were fully compliant with the criteria in place. The goal posts are now being moved, with no consideration given to the consequences of such a decision on many clubs who will not get a vote on the matter.

We believe this to be grossly unfair and contrary to the solidarity promised in 2013, when the SPFL was formed by merging the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League. Indeed, these unilateral actions are strongly reminiscent of the old SPL.

Should this vote pass, we are concerned that there have been no lessons learned from past mistakes, particularly in relation to the 10,000–seat stadium rule. If this is to be the case, financial support for those clubs impacted is essential, if there is to be any semblance of sporting integrity and justice in this decision.

The consultation paper can be found here.

 

Edited May 22 by GNU_Linux

[SM12THN]

Excellent paper - and makes complete sense. 

[Scooby_Doo]

2 minutes ago, SM12THN said:

Excellent paper - and makes complete sense. 

Expect it to be ignored.

[Otis Blue]

20 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Ours is fucking brilliant, and I'm sure Airdrie's is too.

Why should we (ourselves and Airdrie, as an example) be disallowed promotion because some others were dud?

Queens first artificial pitch was dreadful, but the new pitch is a cracker (looks similar to Falkirk's).

[Otis Blue]

30 minutes ago, SM12THN said:

Excellent paper - and makes complete sense. 

It is indeed an excellent paper.

28 minutes ago, Scooby_Doo said:

Expect it to be ignored.

Of course it will be ignored.  The Premiership is a fully paid up rabble of a cartel designed to hoard funding, minimise competition up through the league structure, and to keep the diddies in their place ... truly a parcel of rogues in a nation.

Edited May 22 by Otis Blue

[Newbornbairn]

Next time the havering media shites start their nonsense about injuries, someone should refer them to this - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(23)00133-5/fulltext

 

Quote

Men and women had lower injury incidence on artificial turf. Professional players had a lower incidence of injury  on artificial turf, whereas there was no evidence of differences in the incidence of injury in amateur players. The incidence of pelvis/thigh and knee injuries were lower on artificial turf.

The overall incidence of football injuries is lower on artificial turf than on grass. Based on these findings, the risk of injury can't be used as an argument against artificial turf when considering the optimal playing surface for football.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

Queens first artificial pitch was dreadful, but the new pitch is a cracker (looks similar to Falkirk's).

Big and green?

[Otis Blue]

10 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Big and green?

Yep.

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said:

Next time the havering media shites start their nonsense about injuries, someone should refer them to this - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(23)00133-5/fulltext

Nothing will stop some people thinking that their club's injury problems are due to away games on "astroturf".

It's just a "fact", like sugar making kids hyperactive, or people only using 10% of their brain.

[Diamonds are Forever]

3 hours ago, SM12THN said:

Excellent paper - and makes complete sense. 

 

Correctly highlights that the framing of the debate as 'Grass pitches versus artificial' is completely inappropriate. The question should be 'how do we get better pitches?'. There is no reason to separate the 2 pitch types, there should be quality checks on all surfaces and as long as they are at an appropriate standard then whether it is grass or plastic is irrelevant. The issue has always been that 'grass pitch' is a totally meaningless category. Stair Park in December is a grass pitch, as is Hampden in May, only a moron would think it appropriate to group them together. The same of course is true for artifical, our current pitch is brilliant, the old one had become really poor. So framing it as 'grass versus artifical' isn't the correct way to view it.

A top quality grass pitch is probably the best playing surface available, but for virtually all clubs in Scotland that isn't realistic for most of the season, or at all. Firhill last week for the play-offs was still a bobbly surface, and it's mid-May. East End Park was like a ploughed field during February/March. These are pitches of 2 of the biggest lower league clubs who could be Premiership clubs in the near future, so what chance have League 2 sides got? The rest of the grass ones were as you'd expect from November to March. None of that is a criticism of these clubs, it just highlights how difficult it is for clubs at this level to achieve a quality playing surface.

The 'fitba should be played on grass' crowd will continue to want them banned without actually presenting any credible argument. As mentioned in a post above the injury argument was pushed for a while but has been proven to be nonsense. There are some poor artifical pitches but that's not an argument for banning them any more than poor grass pitches is an argument for banning grass pitches. It's an argument to ensure all pitches are maintained to an appropriate level.

 

Edited May 22 by Diamonds are Forever

[Dons_1988]

I really don’t like plastic pitches, I can’t lie. But there’s no reasonable grounds to ban them, so I hope this fails. 

[Gorgie greatness]

23 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Your point being?

Diddier than I

[Gorgie greatness]

17 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I really don’t like plastic pitches, I can’t lie. But there’s no reasonable grounds to ban them, so I hope this fails. 

for greenie hunting.