Who are you voting for in GE24

[BFTD]

36 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I have, once. It was an election in which there were four parties standing, only one of whom I would have considered voting for, but their candidate was a twunt. He was certain to win though. I wrote on my paper that I would have voted for x party if they hadn't fielded such an inadequate candidate.

I'd strongly recommend to anyone who spoils their paper that they write a message on it. As you'll presumably know but others won't, at the count, not long before the declaration, the Returning Officer goes through each unclear ballot one-by-one with the candidates (and usually others from the parties). If there are disagreements about whether any should constitute a valid vote for one candidate they are put aside and the Returning Officer rules on them, but the vast majority are obvious. Many are blank, many have been signed (I suspect these are mostly postal votes) and some have the traditional phallus. A few have a message and at the counts I've been to these have always been read out.

Surely not!  

"...one ballot marked 'SNP OOT', one ballot marked 'Douglas Ross wanks dugs', and one final ballot marked 'Shandon Par: for all your home decorating needs, call Queen Margaret Hospital A&E'".

[Dundee Hibernian]

Never spoiled my paper, always voted, but it's a struggle to get enthusiastic this time.

Labour will get in at Westminster as they have for around 30% of the time since WW2, then the Tories will be back in a few years.

Used to be a big Labour voter, my parents both stood as councillors for the party (and lost), but gave up on them over 30 years ago and became an Independence supporter.

Thus it's SNP again this time, reluctantly. They need to get their act together, though.

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Read out to a few nonplussed counting agents. Maybe candidates in small parties who don't have enough counting agents or if the candidate is bored.

The reason for doing this is to ascertain whether or not the message indicates a clear preference eg I was able to get a vote that simply said independence for Scotland included as an SNP vote.

Probably wouldn't have got away with it in a tight election.

I've seen them read out to all the candidates.

Greatest ever example is the ballot paper in Na h-Eileanan an Iar that had 'w*nk' or 'good guy' written beside every candidate. There was only one 'good guy', so they got the vote. Most common I've seen is dafties ranking the candidates, in elections with big margins I've seen them taken as a vote for whoever got the 1 but I imagine they're battled over when it's close.

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

 

2007 was a particular f**k up as they held local elections on the same with a different voting system resulting in a large number. 

In 2007 we had a white paper with council candidates on which you voted with numbers. It was the first time we'd ever had single transferable vote in Scotland.

At the same time we also got a Scottish Parliament election ballot paper which was peach down one half with the constituency candidates, against which we were to put one X, and the other half of the same sheet of paper was purple, with the regional vote listing the parties, against which there was to be one more X.

It was also the first election in which Scotland used counting machines.

Everyone who knew anything about elections told the Scotland Office (who were in charge of SP elections) and the Electoral Commission that it was going to be a flustercluck but they pushed ahead with it. On the night every possible way you could get the papers wrong, several people got it wrong. Some put a 1 on one of the votes, a 2 on another and a 3 on the third. Many put numbers on the Scottish Parliament paper, sometimes skipping between candidates and parties.

Over 140,000 papers were rejected but hundreds of thousands more had to go for adjudication. It was a sh*tshow on a spectacular level and it was entirely predictable.

That election was won by the SNP by one seat, the most marginal of which came through a handful of votes across the North East region. If Labour win that election by one the 2011 landslide doesn't happen, indyref doesn't happen and the 2015 landslide doesn't happen.

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, BFTD said:

Got my campaign posters through today.

People would vote for them.

[BFTD]

4 hours ago, GordonS said:

People would vote for them.

I'm guessing at least 10%; the general rule seems to be that at least 10% of the population will vote for anything. Along with the "I never thought leopards would eat MY face" people, you'd capture the folk who don't know much about politics but thought it was time for a change, the people who secretly love the idea of being eaten alive, the people who'd love to see their nose bitten off to spite their face...

TBH, if Cthulhu's followers were willing to guarantee that he'd bring all of this to an end, all of it, I'd consider him. Not sure if they can be trusted though - I remember people talking about bodies piling up in the streets in the Seventies, which I assume was their work, yet we're still here. Ending this reality is Cthulhu's version of abolishing the House of Lords.

[Scorge]

12 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

I wrote the word "no" in every box in the last council election. I started to feel quite self-conscious because there were about fifteen of them.

^^^ 2 unlimited fan found

[BMG Spider]

Looking at that list of parties is depressing - a series of right wing parties now that "Labour" are a pale imitation of the Tories and their only relation to the Labour Party of the past is the name, with the only exceptions being the SNP and the Greens. SNP for me.

[DrewDon]

I have reservations about Labour, but I will likely end up voting for them here by default.

If this was a Scottish Parliament election, there is a decent chance that I would hold my nose and vote for the SNP despite the clouds of Sturgeon and Murrell still looming large, an increasingly unimpressive delivery record and the lack of a feasible strategy to deliver independence, but I'm struggling to endorse them right at this moment. 

My main priorities here, given it is a Westminster election, are the Tories getting smashed and ideally Labour having a steady majority.

[GordonS]

41 minutes ago, DrewDon said:

 ...the lack of a feasible strategy to deliver independence...

Genuine question - what would a feasible strategy to deliver independence look like? 

[DrewDon]

18 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Genuine question - what would a feasible strategy to deliver independence look like? 

Ultimately, that is for the SNP leadership to design. However, rather than a majority of Scottish seats at a Westminster election being held up as a mandate for a referendum (which, to be honest, I just don't think most people believe regardless of their position on independence itself), I would prefer to be chipping away at existing reserved powers, campaigning for further devolution in the short to medium term so that decisions taken at Westminster becoming increasingly irrelevant to the lives of people in Scotland. In the meantime, as the primary parliamentary vehicle for independence, the SNP should be building support by focusing on ensuring competent governance at Holyrood, with a renewed focus on bread and butter areas like education and the NHS.

[Granny Danger]

11 minutes ago, DrewDon said:

Ultimately, that is for the SNP leadership to design. However, rather than a majority of Scottish seats at a Westminster election being held up as a mandate for a referendum (which, to be honest, I just don't think most people believe regardless of their position on independence itself), I would prefer to be chipping away at existing reserved powers, campaigning for further devolution in the short to medium term so that decisions taken at Westminster becoming increasingly irrelevant to the lives of people in Scotland. In the meantime, as the primary parliamentary vehicle for independence, the SNP should be building support by focusing on ensuring competent governance at Holyrood, with a renewed focus on bread and butter areas like education and the NHS.

There nothing wrong with concentration on ‘bread and butter’ issues, I totally agree with that strategy in theory.

The problem is that the Scottish government’s ability to improve vital services is determined by a budget over which they have minimal control.  Services in these areas won’t improve as funding in real terms has been consistently reduced whilst demand, for a variety of valid reasons, has increased.

ETA I don’t see funding improving by any consequence under Labour.

Edited May 27 by Granny Danger

[DrewDon]

15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

There nothing wrong with concentration on ‘bread and butter’ issues, I totally agree with that strategy in theory.

The problem is that the Scottish government’s ability to improve vital services is determined by a budget over which they have minimal control.  Services in these areas won’t improve as funding in real terms has been consistently reduced whilst demand, for a variety of valid reasons, has increased.

I agree, and having that control is one of the main reasons that I would vote for independence tomorrow if I could.

But the question is surely around how to best build a sustainable majority for independence. Of course, there will be challenges and any pro-independence administration in Scotland is playing politics on difficult mode almost by default, but I'm not seeing how the SNP's current messaging and strategy is anything other than counter-productive.

I heard Keith Brown yesterday saying that a majority of SNP MPs being returned in Scotland at this election means that the SNP will "begin negotiations for independence", but nobody really believes it, so it just looks like they are treating the electorate like idiots.

[Bula Bairn]

57 minutes ago, DrewDon said:

I agree, and having that control is one of the main reasons that I would vote for independence tomorrow if I could.

But the question is surely around how to best build a sustainable majority for independence. Of course, there will be challenges and any pro-independence administration in Scotland is playing politics on difficult mode almost by default, but I'm not seeing how the SNP's current messaging and strategy is anything other than counter-productive.

I heard Keith Brown yesterday saying that a majority of SNP MPs being returned in Scotland at this election means that the SNP will "begin negotiations for independence", but nobody really believes it, so it just looks like they are treating the electorate like idiots.

I'm not seeing how voting for a Brexit Unionist party helps tbh. 

[Oceanlineayr]

This is easily the most apathetic I've felt before any election.

The choice is:

Allan Dorrans SNP. (very boring, can't think of any major controversy)

The blue and red cheeks. (Lib Dems haven't bothered yet)

Reform UK and Alba weirdos. Alba is Corri Wilson who defected from SNP but who was a complete moron.

I support independence but I'd have to hold my nose to vote for the SNP. Undecided between that or spoiling the ballot.

 

Edited May 27 by Oceanlineayr

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, DrewDon said:

Ultimately, that is for the SNP leadership to design. However, rather than a majority of Scottish seats at a Westminster election being held up as a mandate for a referendum (which, to be honest, I just don't think most people believe regardless of their position on independence itself), I would prefer to be chipping away at existing reserved powers, campaigning for further devolution in the short to medium term so that decisions taken at Westminster becoming increasingly irrelevant to the lives of people in Scotland. In the meantime, as the primary parliamentary vehicle for independence, the SNP should be building support by focusing on ensuring competent governance at Holyrood, with a renewed focus on bread and butter areas like education and the NHS.

Don't they do that too? They've got new powers on welfare and they're pushing hard on employment law, getting the trade unions to support them. We get the Child Disability Payment because of my son's autism, you can't get that in England.

Nobody wants to be incompetent, but after 17 years in power this is what you get. Though they're nowhere near as incompetent as the media portrays them, because bad news gets 100 times more interest then boring stories of small improvements.

I feel like a lot of those criticising the SNP on not achieving independence think there's some magic button that could be pressed, when the reality is that it's entirely up to Westminster and always will be. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

2 hours ago, Bula Bairn said:

I'm not seeing how voting for a Brexit Unionist party helps tbh. 

I'd agree with that.

There's a question sometimes asked about politics... why do people vote against their own best interests?  To my mind, if folk want independence but vote for a unionist political party that's about as good an example as you could look for.

IMO any independence supporter who votes Labour or Libdem "to get the Tories out" - when they're going out anyway - who thinks that these parties won't claim that it means independence is no longer what voters want has been sold a pup. If you want no Tory MPs in Scotland, the SNP  is best placed to achieve that.  If they're kicked out in Scotland and Wales, that'll be a huge boot in the bozz for them.

As for the Tories, I'm done listening to their pundits and canvassers opining on ''what Scottish voters want' when they haven't won a majority of Scottish seats at a general election since 1955.  I don't ever tell canvassers at the door what my politics are, but this time I'm changing my approach.  I'm going to tell Labour, Tory and Lib Dems that yes, I do want independence, so they can GTF with their "we're not hearing about independence on the doorsteps" because I'm damn sure they'll be hearing it from me .

 

[eez-eh]

15 hours ago, Oceanlineayr said:

This is easily the most apathetic I've felt before any election.

The choice is:

Allan Dorrans SNP. (very boring, can't think of any major controversy)

The blue and red cheeks. (Lib Dems haven't bothered yet)

Reform UK and Alba weirdos. Alba is Corri Wilson who defected from SNP but who was a complete moron.

I support independence but I'd have to hold my nose to vote for the SNP. Undecided between that or spoiling the ballot.

 

I’ve never met her but people who have say similar. She’s also a gravy train riding arsehole.

From June 2015 until August 2016, she was one of 125 MPs who employed a member of their family: employing her son Kieran as a caseworker/personal assistant.^[7][8] From 15 September 2016, she had employed her daughter Shannon as a caseworker/personal assistant, which was allowed under IPSA rules up until the election in June 2017.^[9]

 

From the period of 1 June 2015 to 31 May 2016, the statement, Wilson claimed a total of £94,545.41 in public expenses, which was the 7th highest amount of any MP in the United Kingdom that year.^[10]

 

In 2016, Wilson and Chic Brodie, an SNP MSP representing the South Scotland electoral regionat the Scottish Parliament, faced controversy over a public expenses scandal, with Chic Brodie transferring £87,616 of public expenses into Corri Wilson's Caledonii Resources for "outsourced constituency work" after her election as councillor to the Ayr East ward in 2012, with some £20,000 being transferred during the Scottish independence referendum campaign in 2014 and a further £20,000 being transferred during the 2015 UK general election campaign, well in excess of Independent Parliamentary Standards Authorityguidelines. The expenses were not recorded within Corri Wilson's Register of Members' Interests. Caledonii Resources was later dissolved in May 2017.^[16][17]

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, eez-eh said:

I’ve never met her but people who have say similar. She’s also a gravy train riding arsehole.

 

From June 2015 until August 2016, she was one of 125 MPs who employed a member of their family: employing her son Kieran as a caseworker/personal assistant.^[7][8] From 15 September 2016, she had employed her daughter Shannon as a caseworker/personal assistant, which was allowed under IPSA rules up until the election in June 2017.^[9]

 

From the period of 1 June 2015 to 31 May 2016, the statement, Wilson claimed a total of £94,545.41 in public expenses, which was the 7th highest amount of any MP in the United Kingdom that year.^[10]

 

In 2016, Wilson and Chic Brodie, an SNP MSP representing the South Scotland electoral regionat the Scottish Parliament, faced controversy over a public expenses scandal, with Chic Brodie transferring £87,616 of public expenses into Corri Wilson's Caledonii Resources for "outsourced constituency work" after her election as councillor to the Ayr East ward in 2012, with some £20,000 being transferred during the Scottish independence referendum campaign in 2014 and a further £20,000 being transferred during the 2015 UK general election campaign, well in excess of Independent Parliamentary Standards Authorityguidelines. The expenses were not recorded within Corri Wilson's Register of Members' Interests. Caledonii Resources was later dissolved in May 2017.^[16][17]

It’s a dichotomy.  One the one hand elected representatives deserve to be properly remunerated for the important and essential job they do.  I don’t think MPs and MSPs are overpaid in relation to their jobs.

On the other hand it is possible in the party driven electoral system for grifters, charlatans, the incompetent and the downright lazy to get elected then re-elected.  People abusing the system is a natural byproduct of this and there’s probably little can be done to prevent it.

 

 

[betting competition]

On 23/05/2024 at 09:45, Suspect Device said:

At the moment I'm thinking about drawing the cock and balls on the voting slip but I might be persuaded to vote for a candidate.

Not Tory or Labour.

Pretty likely that Flynn will win here anyway.

I would say it’s more likely that the Tories will win if their votes hold up. In 2019, there were sexual misconduct allegations involving Thomson, which damaged the Tories.

Edited May 28 by betting competition