Cashless society

[BFTD]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Big Fiend Telling Dave?

We're both members of Dave Club. We have rules for a reason.

[Todd_is_God]

9 hours ago, 101 said:

I suspect this will eventually be tested by some nut in the courts but I suspect anywhere that let’s you have a debt against them cannot legally refuse cash.

It is fundamental in society to have a means a payment open to all to buy and sell goods and settle debts.

They aren't refusing you settling your debt using legal tender (in Scotland, incidentally, the term "legal tender" is limited to coins and banknotes no greater in value than £1), they are not allowing you to generate that debt in the first place by refusing the sale.

[GNU_Linux]

Ditching the 50 pound note was woke nonsense

[101]

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

They aren't refusing you settling your debt using legal tender (in Scotland, incidentally, the term "legal tender" is limited to coins and banknotes no greater in value than £1), they are not allowing you to generate that debt in the first place by refusing the sale.

I dunno a restaurant that doesn’t make it clear its card only is probably a debt.

[Todd_is_God]

36 minutes ago, 101 said:

I dunno a restaurant that doesn’t make it clear its card only is probably a debt.

I think the legal definition of debt in the UK is reserved for money you have borrowed but not yet paid back, rather than simply unpaid goods and services.

However, to your point, I don't think I've ever been in a shop or restaurant in the UK that has not made it very obvious they are cash only, or allowed the scenario you describe to occur. Businesses which don't take cards, in my personal experience, usually ask for the cash up front. 

[Bairnardo]

52 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I think the legal definition of debt in the UK is reserved for money you have borrowed but not yet paid back, rather than simply unpaid goods and services.

However, to your point, I don't think I've ever been in a shop or restaurant in the UK that has not made it very obvious they are cash only, or allowed the scenario you describe to occur. Businesses which don't take cards, in my personal experience, usually ask for the cash up front. 

I know my barber is cash only, but there is absolutely nothing anywhere in the shop telling you this 

[Steve_Wilkos]

3 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

Ditching the 50 pound note was woke nonsense

Ironically, Linux is comfortably the wokest OS. 

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

I know my barber is cash only, but there is absolutely nothing anywhere in the shop telling you this 

Yeah, I was trying to think of all the cash businesses that I know, and I don't think any of them have anything to indicate they don't take cards. They don't even seem to warn people verbally. Bit odd, as when I've been working at cash-only shops I'll always mention that before I start ringing anything up, as it's a pain in the hole to cancel the transaction.

I do know a couple of places with minimum card purchase notices on the till, though.

[ScotiaNostra]

12 hours ago, welshbairn said:

We'll be trading neeps for onions.

wouldnt go that far but the inconveince of not being able to pay anything for a couple of days for anyone without cash will be enough to keep cash about as part of the currency mix

Edited 12 hours ago by ScotiaNostra

[DiegoDiego]

When I lived in Denmark, many shops would stop talking cash after a certain hour. The explanation being that cash put staff at risk from armed robbers.

Not sure if that's still the case, but it does remind me of the fact that the "Denmark is the most wonderful place in the world" nonsense going around back then was wilfully ignoring a lot of unsavoury aspects of their society.

[ICTChris]

40 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

When I lived in Denmark, many shops would stop talking cash after a certain hour. The explanation being that cash put staff at risk from armed robbers.

Not sure if that's still the case, but it does remind me of the fact that the "Denmark is the most wonderful place in the world" nonsense going around back then was wilfully ignoring a lot of unsavoury aspects of their society.

If you ever watch old documentaries about crime from the 1970s and 80s it's amazing how wide the opportunities for armed robbery was.  Lots of people used to be paid in cash so any large office or factory would need to have large quantities of cash on every payday to fill the wage packets.  This obviously attracted criminals who would try to steal it.  there was an armed robbery of the Daily Express payroll in 1976 that netted £175,000, which is equivelent to £1.5m today.  Another similar robbery of the Daily Mirror payroll in 1978 saw a security guard murdered and £200,000 stolen.  Smaller robberies must also have been really common.

[WullieBroonIsGod]

22 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Pi numbers would be confusing 

3.14?

[Boo Khaki]

19 hours ago, ScotiaNostra said:

within 10 years the technology will have fecked up enough that everyone will be back to carrying some money at least with them

I always laugh at pro-cash advocates bringing up the "tech can go wrong" point and remind them of the countless times I was left wandering around with no cash... because the ATM system had collapsed.

Unless you are suggesting a return to the days where your employer trailed into a bank, withdrew a load of cash over the counter, and then handed you a physical paypacket at the end of the week, then the "tech" angle doesn't really wash because it f**ks up cash use just as much as it does card/phone.

How are cashiers supposed to accept cash as payment if the POS is down, they can't register the sale, and can't even open the till?

[Florentine_Pogen]

4 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

How are cashiers supposed to accept cash as payment if the POS is down, they can't register the sale, and can't even open the till?

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

you ever watch old documentaries about crime from the 1970s and 80s it's amazing how wide the opportunities for armed robbery was

It meant I've had to reconsider my "one big job" strategy. Small time fraud and theft from pensioners is easy but tedious.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

If you ever watch old documentaries about crime from the 1970s and 80s it's amazing how wide the opportunities for armed robbery was.  Lots of people used to be paid in cash so any large office or factory would need to have large quantities of cash on every payday to fill the wage packets.  This obviously attracted criminals who would try to steal it.  there was an armed robbery of the Daily Express payroll in 1976 that netted £175,000, which is equivelent to £1.5m today.  Another similar robbery of the Daily Mirror payroll in 1978 saw a security guard murdered and £200,000 stolen.  Smaller robberies must also have been really common.

Most of the big robberies in cowboy films were payroll heists, it's a tradition that's sadly being lost in this soulless plastic world.

[Granny Danger]

38 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

I always laugh at pro-cash advocates bringing up the "tech can go wrong" point and remind them of the countless times I was left wandering around with no cash... because the ATM system had collapsed.

Unless you are suggesting a return to the days where your employer trailed into a bank, withdrew a load of cash over the counter, and then handed you a physical paypacket at the end of the week, then the "tech" angle doesn't really wash because it f**ks up cash use just as much as it does card/phone.

How are cashiers supposed to accept cash as payment if the POS is down, they can't register the sale, and can't even open the till?

Have you ever went into a shop, took your basket up to the till, waited until the cashier has rung everything up, then offered them 6p in the pound?

[btb]

 

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

If you ever watch old documentaries about crime from the 1970s and 80s it's amazing how wide the opportunities for armed robbery was.  Lots of people used to be paid in cash so any large office or factory would need to have large quantities of cash on every payday to fill the wage packets.  This obviously attracted criminals who would try to steal it.  there was an armed robbery of the Daily Express payroll in 1976 that netted £175,000, which is equivelent to £1.5m today.  Another similar robbery of the Daily Mirror payroll in 1978 saw a security guard murdered and £200,000 stolen.  Smaller robberies must also have been really common.

[LIVIFOREVER]

I liked having a bank book and seeing my money put in, and taken out, knowing exactly what i had in my account, gradually i gave in and switched to having an account that used a card. And now i hardly ever pay with cash, probably only a matter of time till money is done away with and you get paid in credits, like futuristic sci-fi films.

I take a few pound coins for the charity bins at the football though, feel rotten walking past them, they're usually all local ones too, which is good. However i nipped into Morrisons after the game to get a couple of things on my way home, and there was someone collecting for a charity at the entrance, i said i didn't have any money on me, just had my card, or i'd give something, and she whipped out a card reader, caught me dead to rights with that one and i could hardly say no.

[Granny Danger]

27 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

I liked having a bank book and seeing my money put in, and taken out, knowing exactly what i had in my account, gradually i gave in and switched to having an account that used a card. And now i hardly ever pay with cash, probably only a matter of time till money is done away with and you get paid in credits, like futuristic sci-fi films.

I take a few pound coins for the charity bins at the football though, feel rotten walking past them, they're usually all local ones too, which is good. However i nipped into Morrisons after the game to get a couple of things on my way home, and there was someone collecting for a charity at the entrance, i said i didn't have any money on me, just had my card, or i'd give something, and she whipped out a card reader, caught me dead to rights with that one and i could hardly say no.

You should have said ‘f**k off you chugger’.