Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran)

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

The exhaust blew. Fortunately only 50 yards from the house, but I brought it in like a winged Lancaster Bomber. It would put the fear of God into both sides if I drove it about Gaza.

So it sounds like a tank, but does it look like a tank?

[BillyAnchor]

Sgt. Wilson's trip to California in the 90s.

 

 

[Theyellowbox]

The only certainty here is that the majority of people who will die (regardless of Israeli or Palestinian) with be civilians. Obvious the more extremes on either side might argue that there is no such thing as a civilian in this, but its unlikely armed soldiers will be the majority of casualties.

Of course, the reaction from Israel will be severe, but ultimately that is what Hamas wanted. To them, it was all getting a bit too 'normal' despite a far right Israel government, so to stoke the conflict is a win for them. Likewise for the hard right in Israel.

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 07/10/2023 at 19:32, Moomintroll said:

As usual, it will be innocent people on both sides who will suffer because of this neverending shite

There is a / are reason(s) it is never ending

[Ewanandmoreagain]

8 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

Well, that’s some American citizens being reported as dead. US saying it will try to verify these deaths first, and then “make sure Israel has what it needs”.

Also, has Palestine been solely referred to as Gaza before in the news? Or is this a new thing?

Haven’t seen the nation been referred to by its name once in the headlines. 

The West Bank has not been involved ?

[Granny Danger]

26 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

The only certainty here is that the majority of people who will die (regardless of Israeli or Palestinian) with be civilians. Obvious the more extremes on either side might argue that there is no such thing as a civilian in this, but its unlikely armed soldiers will be the majority of casualties.

Of course, the reaction from Israel will be severe, but ultimately that is what Hamas wanted. To them, it was all getting a bit too 'normal' despite a far right Israel government, so to stoke the conflict is a win for them. Likewise for the hard right in Israel.

There’s another certainty.  More Palestinians will die than Israelis.  That’s always been the case throughout this conflict.

 

[TxRover]

The irony of an Israeli saying that “Israel needs to root out every last Hamas terrorist, like the vermin that they are” is lost on many people. Here’s a quote from Adolf…“Nature is cruel; therefore we are also entitled to be cruel. When I send the flower of German youth into the steel hail of the next war without feeling the slightest regret over the precious German blood that is being spilled, should I not also have the right to eliminate millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin?”

Now, is the first quote really that much different than the second?

 

[coprolite]

6 minutes ago, TxRover said:

The irony of an Israeli saying that “Israel needs to root out every last Hamas terrorist, like the vermin that they are” is lost on many people. Here’s a quote from Adolf…“Nature is cruel; therefore we are also entitled to be cruel. When I send the flower of German youth into the steel hail of the next war without feeling the slightest regret over the precious German blood that is being spilled, should I not also have the right to eliminate millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin?”

Now, is the first quote really that much different than the second?

 

"Hamas Terrorist" isn't a race. 

There might be a dog whistle there but it's not an unequivocal assertion of racial superiority. 

[Juanhourjoe]

10 hours ago, 101 said:

The latest attacks from Hamas against civilians is not legitimate though, now they are at war perfectly acceptable for them to be killing soldiers. 

Both sides of this conflict have for a very long time been killing civilians.

Not so many civilians in Israel 

[ICTChris]

Analysis of the attack on the Nova festival. Current estimates are that 260 festival goers were killed with others kidnapped. 

 

 

 

[Newbornbairn]

 

[ScotiaNostra]

In a lot of Muslim countries, the general population are a bit fed up of their governments using the Palestinian cause to help prop up their unpopular governments. A way to divert attention from their internal problems and lack of freedoms. Im not sure how real that clip is but it doesnt surprise me if its genuine. 

[LongTimeLurker]

10 hours ago, Ewanandmoreagain said:

The West Bank has not been involved ?

The West Bank (or more accurately a series of overcrowded Native American reservation style enclaves contained therein) is still controlled by the PLO who are left leaning secularists, while Gaza is controlled by Sunni Islamists. In de facto terms it doesn't make much sense to refer to them as a single Palestinian entity any more even if in de jure terms that's how most of the world recognises their status complete with the 1948-1967 borders. If there's going to be a second front odds on it will be Hezbollah (Shiite Islamists) from southern Lebanon.

Edited October 9, 2023 by LongTimeLurker

[coprolite]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The West Bank (or more accurately a series of overcrowded Native American reservation style encalves contained therein) is still controlled by the PLO who are left leaning secularists, while Gaza is controlled by Sunni Islamists. In de facto terms it doesn't make much sense to refer to them as a single Palestinian entity any more even if in de jure terms that's how most of the world recognises their status complete with the 1948-1967 borders. If there's going to be a second front odds on it will be Hezbollah (Shiite Islamists) from southern Lebanon.

Hezbollah cross border skirmish last night. 

The West Bank has been increasingly tense in the lead up to this with settler mobs attacking palestinian areas and killing a few of them, while the army stand back and only intervene to stop the Palestinians fighting back. Reports of increasing Hamas support there. Not saying Hamas are taking over or anything, but it's hardly a stable situation and i wouldn't bet on it staying contained. 

Bashar's probably bored now that the war's over. Might fancy a bit of a rammy over Golan heights. 

[welshbairn]

It's long been alleged that Israel helped Hamas to power in Gaza to diminish the voice of the more internationally respected Palestinian National Authority and reduce the pressure for a Palestinian state. Every rocket fired from Gaza was a message excusing Israel from negotiations, and they were so inaccurate they rarely hit anyone. This article looks like confirming it.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ 

Edited October 9, 2023 by welshbairn

[GHF-23]

17 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Very balanced report from MSNBC explaining  Netanyahu’s role in the latest violence.
 

https://www.msnbc.com/american-voices/watch/how-israel-s-far-right-government-fueled-tensions-with-hamas-194667077813

There was also a ten minute interview with a Palestinian representative on CNN last night which was very respectful and genuinely balanced. While obviously the US remains the biggest backers of Israel there's a very  slow shift in acceptable public opinion over there, while anything other than "there is no context beyond the attack by Hamas, Israel has the right to defend herself, Israel should try not to blow up too many apartment blocks when they retaliate" will have you monstered out of public life in the UK.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Compare Israel's media to British media.

[oneteaminglasgow]

6 minutes ago, GHF-23 said:

There was also a ten minute interview with a Palestinian representative on CNN last night which was very respectful and genuinely balanced. While obviously the US remains the biggest backers of Israel there's a very  slow shift in acceptable public opinion over there, while anything other than "there is no context beyond the attack by Hamas, Israel has the right to defend herself, Israel should try not to blow up too many apartment blocks when they retaliate" will have you monstered out of public life in the UK.

Not going to pretend I’m an expert on the conflict or anything, but I have found the way the press have been following Jeremy Corbyn, an independent MP who stopped being leader of the opposition three years ago, and demanding that he condemn Hamas individually deeply weird.

[Old Pack]

Irans Nuclear aspirations will be getting targeted soon again.

The Israelis aren’t going to let Iran get that capability.

 

[GHF-23]

3 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Not going to pretend I’m an expert on the conflict or anything, but I have found the way the press have been following Jeremy Corbyn, an independent MP who stopped being leader of the opposition three years ago, and demanding that he condemn Hamas individually deeply weird.

On one end there are a section of journalists who would genuinely very much like it if he got attacked or killed himself. On the other it's Labour conference so being able to associate  Starmer with vile anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn, or allow Starmer to distance himself from vile anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn, depending on your newspaper's affiliation, is handy