The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Michael W]

If we were so inclined that results were unacceptable despite finishing second last season, we should've parted ways after Ross County. This would've been viewed as exceedingly harsh and the club would've been lambasted in the media for it, but we likely wouldn't have then retained most of last season's starting XI and perhaps we could've let a new manager with different ideas start from scratch. I don't think we aren't "done" in terms of the squad, but we now have a squad that was almost exclusively signed by Ian Murray. 

At any rate, Murray's sacking still looks incredibly harsh and I'm a bit surprised we haven't been widely condemned for it by the usual pundits. Whilst I am still struggling to agree that the club has made the right decision, I would say that if the squad isn't fit enough, which Murray alleged in his last interview with us, then Murray bears a fair bit of responsibility for that. 

Of course, we are working on the basis here that the statement is entirely accurate and isn't an attempt to ensure both parties can save face. There may be more to it that caused relationships to break down and, quite frankly, we may never know if there was. 

Edited August 5 by Michael W

[CountryBumpkin]

3 minutes ago, mrpaddyx said:

Having thought about it a bit I'm still a bit sad about Murray leaving but I can see where the board is coming from.

On the plus side he did a good job the season he came in when the club was in a mess having to still deal with aftermath from the Goodwillie situation.

When it works, full on Murrayball is thrilling and I doubt we will ever go through a run of games like last November where in 3 consecutive games we were losing after 78 minutes and ended up winning the all of them.  The 1-0 win at Tannadice was the zenith of his time in charge but things were not the same after this.

Some of the performances and team selection in the 2nd half of the season were just odd. It was like other clubs had figured out how to play against us he couldn't adjust.

Even taking this into account I'd have been happy for him to continue being manager based on the first half of season. It seems a bit strange bringing in Stevenson and Hanlon, who hasn't even played yet, on decent wages and then sacking the manager. 

I've few complaints on how the club has been run since the new board came in, just about every decision has made the club better and I'm happy to give them a pass on this one with the expectation they have someone lined up who can have us challenging for promotion.

The good thing is, Stevenson and Hanlon have probably seen about 40 managerial changes in their time at Hibs, they'll be used to it and should be able to keep going as normal. 

 

I still think the overall call is kneejerk and really badly timed. If it was based on results and performances since January, that suggests that the target for last season had shifted. We'd all hoped for top 4, but I suspect the board saw what we were doing and pushed it up a bit. This season they've gone further, I have a nagging feeling that we're betting the bank on promotion this season, to cover the works being done and more importantly to cover the work to be done on the pitch renewal. This change, now, feels like a bit of a panicked hail mary. 

On a separate note, I also have a feeling that we're perhaps not hitting the financial projections for this stage of the season, its clear from the barrage of emails last week that hospitality and match sponsorship for the Partick and Livingston games has not sold out like they would have expected, the talk around stand sponsorship has gone quiet, though for the main stand, that announcement may wait until the cladding is finished up. 

[mrpaddyx]

8 minutes ago, CountryBumpkin said:

On a separate note, I also have a feeling that we're perhaps not hitting the financial projections for this stage of the season, its clear from the barrage of emails last week that hospitality and match sponsorship for the Partick and Livingston games has not sold out like they would have expected, the talk around stand sponsorship has gone quiet, though for the main stand, that announcement may wait until the cladding is finished up. 

Yeah, they have been a bit quieter about season ticket sales recently, which I believe is sitting at around 2200. This is still up on last season but from their earlier messages I think they were expecting more than 3000.

[SanStarko]

8 minutes ago, Michael W said:

If we were so inclined that results were unacceptable despite finishing second last season, we should've parted ways after Ross County. This would've been viewed as exceedingly harsh and the club would've been lambasted in the media for it, but we likely wouldn't have then retained most of last season's starting XI and perhaps we could've let a new manager with different ideas start from scratch. I don't think we aren't "done" in terms of the squad, but we now have a squad that was almost exclusively signed by Ian Murray. 

 

Or exclusively signed by John Potter.   I know Murray made a comment once about him identifying players, but it would be interesting to know if our transfer process was just him saying "I want x player" and then Potter goes to work on that.  Or was it Murray just saying "I want a player to play x role" and Potter tries to get the best player he can for that role.  Or was it Barrowman/Potter going out and getting the best players they can regardless of what Murrays says or wants, and it was upto Murray to get them playing.   Or a combination of all the above.

I mean it is strange that Murray went on about wanting somebody with pace away back at Christmas, we're now in August and absolutely nothing was done about it.  Was it that there just wasn't anybody available, or did the rest of the decision making group decide the money would be better spent elsewhere in the squad?

Got to see how it all pans out but it does make it feel like the new board have overreacted a bit.  Either they overreacted to the mental first half of last season and gave Murray the 3 year deal.  Or they've overreacted to how it's going just now and sacked him.  Or they're overreacted both times.  

Or, tinfoil hat on, when they took over did they have an idea who they wanted in charge but didn't want to come in and immediately sack Murray.   So they've left him in charge expecting we'd have a so-so season, then he'd be out of contract and they'd go get the guy they want.  But then we had that insane first half of the season, they've got carried away, given him a 3 year deal thinking he was better than they thought.  They've then watched our performances and ability to even just create chances pretty much disappear and decided they've f**ked up and it's time to go back to the original plan.  

[Laid Back Maverick]

13 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Of course, we are working on the basis here that the statement is entirely accurate and isn't an attempt to ensure both parties can save face. There may be more to it that caused relationships to break down and, quite frankly, we may never know if there was. 

The statement could have used the standard euphemism of “left by mutual consent”, but instead the language is clear that Murray has been sacked. That’s not allowing anyone to save face. Maybe it was a rushed statement as the news had already leaked.

Tbh I wouldn’t have been too fussed if Murray had left for Hibs. We finished in a strong second place, but rode our luck a lot last season. 

[Michael W]

2 minutes ago, Laid Back Maverick said:

The statement could have used the standard euphemism of “left by mutual consent”, but instead the language is clear that Murray has been sacked. That’s not allowing anyone to save face. Maybe it was a rushed statement as the news had already leaked.

Tbh I wouldn’t have been too fussed if Murray had left for Hibs. We finished in a strong second place, but rode our luck a lot last season. 

I was meaning that it eliminates any suggestion of a fall out or disagreement. 

I still think sacking Murray on the basis of results is harsh. 

 

[SirJimmyofNic]

Whoever get the gig, I hope it puts an end to this tippy tappy sideways, backward and sideways again then back to the goalkeeper pish, 

The players themselves ( if and when fit ) need to step up to the plate now and play like we know they can

[Keyser Soze]

4 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

Whoever get the gig, I hope it puts an end to this tippy tappy sideways, backward and sideways again then back to the goalkeeper pish, 

The players themselves ( if and when fit ) need to step up to the plate now and play like we know they can

This is the biggest thing for me, Murray just wasn't getting the best out of the players at his disposal, maybe now that the shackles are off they can play with a bit more freedom, time will tell.

[Brashy's Boots]

Cammy Fraser

"More to it than getting beat Saturday but it won't come out . In a few weeks new manager comes in. Was he actually taking the training don't think so was he hung out to dry I think so. someone thought they knew better and all comes down to your boss who was his boss ?"

[CountryBumpkin]

Some grim names on that list from McBookie. Dodds, Ferguson, McCann, Bullen, McCall, Imrie, Naysmith, Cameron/Potter, Thomson, Hanlon, Coyle and Mulgrew can all get in the sea in terms of next appointment. Hanlon would probably injure himself typing up his CV

[Jilted John]

29 minutes ago, CountryBumpkin said:

Some grim names on that list from McBookie. Dodds, Ferguson, McCann, Bullen, McCall, Imrie, Naysmith, Cameron/Potter, Thomson, Hanlon, Coyle and Mulgrew can all get in the sea in terms of next appointment. Hanlon would probably injure himself typing up his CV

I think you might need to prepare yourself for a bit of disappointment as one of those names you mentioned will probably end up with the job. Quite a few of them have achieved more than Murray had before we appointed him.

Edited August 5 by Jilted John

[CountryBumpkin]

44 minutes ago, Jilted John said:

I think you might need to prepare yourself for a bit of disappointment as one of those names you mentioned will probably end up with the job. Quite a few of them have achieved more than Murray had before we appointed him.

Quite a few of them have achieved nothing since we appointed Murray. 

Dodds, punted by a woeful ICT side after turning them from cup finalists into what we saw last season, awful playing style.

Ferguson, a total nothingburger of a manager

McCann, punted by a woeful ICT side, awful pundit to boot. Plus side, becoming a manager would remove his vapid opinions away from the TV games.

Bullen, no, just no

McCall, f**k no

Imrie, would turn us into utter jobbers in a window, would also probably bring Kirk Broadfoot, as our defence isn't quite old and immobile enough

Naysmith, hasn't managed at this end of the championship*, too much of a risk IMO

Cameron/Potter, wouldn't be any change from what we had. They've been training this current "style" alongside Murray, part of the same problem.

Thomson, the managerial prostitute, after leaving Kelty has done....nothing of note. 

Hanlon, untried, too risky

Coyle, enjoying time in India again, not sure I could get behind an old man who insists on wearing shorts on the sidelines as if he's about to come on as a sub at any moment.

Mulgrew, better pundit than McCann, no managerial experience.

 

 

As for the others that could be promising, it feels like they'd be unlikely. 

Courts is probably being paid a fortune in the human rights abusing paradise, it would likely take a massive cut on his part to leave. 

Neilson, in the US, again likely being paid a lot more than we can/will/should ever offer.

Bowyer, didn't want to move from Blackpool when at Dundee, probably wouldn't expect different now. Don't think a lot of Dundee fans cared when he left, even after a promotion.

Robson, 6 months at Aberdeen, made them look as good as Hibs. 

McCabe, Feels like the natural Murray successor, but unlikely to be uprooted from Airdrie where he's got some excellent players that he's signed in.

 

You're probably right, it'll be one from the bookies list, but not a lot of inspiring names amongst it. At least John Hughes isn't on there.

 

*As bagpuss reminded me, Naysmith was in charge at QotS achieving two 6th place finishes and then 9th before leaving. 

Edited August 5 by CountryBumpkin

[stevoraith]

If you take the ‘performances’ part of the ‘results and performances’ wording in the statement then the timing isn’t as wild as it seems.

 

It makes sense that the board would be disappointed at the performances in the second half of the season (as were a lot of fans).  They maybe thought that a reset during the close season and the addition of a few more bodies to strengthen us would see performances improve.

The league cup results were ‘level par’ as the podcast puts it but the performances were flat.

They maybe thought that once the league started the spark would return, but it certainly didn’t on Saturday.

 

I suspect that there was some sort of flashpoint on Saturday evening that pushed the board in the direction they were already heading.

 

Like a lot of folk have posted, I liked Murray so I am disappointed to see him go, but only because I can’t see who we can realistically get that isn’t a jobber from the merry-go-round.

But the football in a decent proportion of the second half of last season (and all of this season so far) was really poor so part of me does agree with the decision, with the obvious caveat that we need to get someone in who can change that.

[Raith_Fox]

Interview with Andrew Barrowman to come later today explaining decision and next steps

[bagpuss]

15 minutes ago, CountryBumpkin said:

Quite a few of them have achieved nothing since we appointed Murray. 

Dodds, punted by a woeful ICT side after turning them from cup finalists into what we saw last season, awful playing style.

Ferguson, a total nothingburger of a manager

McCann, punted by a woeful ICT side, awful pundit to boot. Plus side, becoming a manager would remove his vapid opinions away from the TV games.

Bullen, no, just no

McCall, f**k no

Imrie, would turn us into utter jobbers in a window, would also probably bring Kirk Broadfoot, as our defence isn't quite old and immobile enough

Naysmith, hasn't managed at this level, too much of a risk IMO

Cameron/Potter, wouldn't be any change from what we had. They've been training this current "style" alongside Murray, part of the same problem.

Thomson, the managerial prostitute, after leaving Kelty has done....nothing of note. 

Hanlon, untried, too risky

Coyle, enjoying time in India again, not sure I could get behind an old man who insists on wearing shorts on the sidelines as if he's about to come on as a sub at any moment.

Mulgrew, better pundit than McCann, no managerial experience.

 

 

As for the others that could be promising, it feels like they'd be unlikely. 

Courts is probably being paid a fortune in the human rights abusing paradise, it would likely take a massive cut on his part to leave. 

Neilson, in the US, again likely being paid a lot more than we can/will/should ever offer.

Bowyer, didn't want to move from Blackpool when at Dundee, probably wouldn't expect different now. Don't think a lot of Dundee fans cared when he left, even after a promotion.

Robson, 6 months at Aberdeen, made them look as good as Hibs. 

McCabe, Feels like the natural Murray successor, but unlikely to be uprooted from Airdrie where he's got some excellent players that he's signed in.

 

You're probably right, it'll be one from the bookies list, but not a lot of inspiring names amongst it. At least John Hughes isn't on there.

Didn't Naysmith manage QoS at this level?

[Stardog_champion]

21 hours ago, Diamond8 said:

I can’t see it being McCabe for a number of reasons. First one being that he has full control at Airdrie, he won’t get that anywhere else. The next glaring issue he would see is the age of the squad yous have assembled. Then there’s the messy fall out with Fordyce. I also think our squad isn’t that far behind yours but again is that down to us having a superior manager that can get the most out of players rather than Murray?

Have to admit, McCabe is talented. Don’t worry he won’t come to us. Me personally and it’s just me btw. I want Jim Magilton

[Ro Sham Bo]

1 hour ago, Brashy's Boots said:

Cammy Fraser

"More to it than getting beat Saturday but it won't come out . In a few weeks new manager comes in. Was he actually taking the training don't think so was he hung out to dry I think so. someone thought they knew better and all comes down to your boss who was his boss ?"

I also read a post by him ehere he said he wasn't surprised by this as we were heading for relegation so who knows what he really thinks.

[Stardog_champion]

So we’re just in the market for the most meh managers in Scotland Jesus wept. 

[CountryBumpkin]

8 minutes ago, bagpuss said:

Didn't Naysmith manage QoS at this level?

Good spot, didn't finish higher than 6th. Achieved that twice and then 9th in his final season. 

[Airdrie76]

2 minutes ago, Stardog_champion said:

So we’re just in the market for the most meh managers in Scotland Jesus wept. 

The bookies go with the most obvious names. They then determine odds and movement based on who the money goes on. Relax. 
 

Wheres Magilton getting quoted from btw? Seems a long shot surely?