Unpopular opinions.

[banana]

43 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Around 7.4 billion too many.

Oh God, I remember going through this phase 

Why do you think there are 7.4 billion too many?

[The Moonster]

5 minutes ago, banana said:

Oh God, I remember going through this phase 

Why do you think there are 7.4 billion too many?

If you want me to converse with you then leave your patronising bullshit to one side.

Humans are awful. It's that simple really. 

[banana]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

If you want me to converse with you then leave your patronising bullshit to one side.

Humans are awful. It's that simple really. 

You put your snowflakery to the side too and we've got a deal  

Why do you think humans are awful? Compared to what? Why does wishing extinction follow?

Edited July 24, 2018 by banana

[The Moonster]

8 minutes ago, banana said:

You put your snowflakery to the side too and we've got a deal  

Why do you think humans are awful? Compared to what? Why does wishing extinction follow?

Fairly obvious why we're awful I'd have thought. Intelligent beings who plunder their way through earths resources with scant regard for the consequences. We kill each other over oil, money and territory even after thousands of years of civilisation. We call people snowflakes in debates to feel superior. The list goes on.

The wishing instinction part was really just a joke, I obviously don't wish for myself or my family to be wiped from existence, but I don't doubt the world would probably operate better with less people on it (or no people at all).

[banana]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Fairly obvious why we're awful I'd have thought. Intelligent beings who plunder their way through earths resources with scant regard for the consequences. We kill each other over oil, money and territory even after thousands of years of civilisation. We call people snowflakes in debates to feel superior. The list goes on.

The wishing instinction part was really just a joke, I obviously don't wish for myself or my family to be wiped from existence, but I don't doubt the world would probably operate better with less people on it (or no people at all).

All this compared to what, though?

What are we 'plundering' and from who? Why? Which consequences, are they only negative?

What do you mean by 'the world' operating 'better'? How do you know 12 or 20 billion isn't the optimal number, that we've still a way to go?

[Cardinal Richelieu]

On 21/07/2018 at 21:46, LongTimeLurker said:

Can remember winding up a Polish guy that I was working with in Canada back when communism was collapsing in Eastern Europe that I thought General Jaruzelski would eventually be remembered as a hero for saving his country from Soviet invasion and handing over power to the opposition as soon as it was safe to do so.  Safe to say that didn't go down too well, although the next day he said I was probably right but should be very careful who I said it to as I might get my head kicked in. Don't think it ever dawned on him that I might be taking the piss.

i was sitting in the pub with some chums, with a Polish girl, Czech girl and Romanian guy all sitting on one side of the table and all us Britishers sat on the other. I pointed out that this invisible "iron curtain" they'd drawn between us was a sub-conscious attempt by them to bring back Communism. That went down like a cup of cold sick, as you can imagine. 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Cardinal Richelieu said:

i was sitting in the pub with some chums, with a Polish girl, Czech girl and Romanian guy all sitting on one side of the table and all us Britishers sat on the other. I pointed out that this invisible "iron curtain" they'd drawn between us was a sub-conscious attempt by them to bring back Communism. That went down like a cup of cold sick, as you can imagine. 

Remember asking a guy from Hong Kong at Uni why he was bothering to study for his degree as, when China took over, they'd just staple the degree to his back and send him out to the paddy fields. How he laughed!

[Melanius Mullarkey]

2 minutes ago, Cardinal Richelieu said:

That went down like a cup of cold sick, as you can imagine. 

Or "a pint of Tennents" as the pub probably marketed it

[The OP]

1 hour ago, banana said:

There's obviously crossover, but girls and boys generally have different and clear ranges of interests, champ.

Go procreate, it'll be an eye-opener. Nothing quite like fathers and sons getting together for top lad play / bantz.

I have a child and I have three nieces and a nephew. They are all different. I'd imagine you're the type of shite parent who talks about 'boys stuff' and 'girls stuff' and would batter your wee boy if he wanted to take up ballet, not realising you are denying yourself some royalties to a very successful musical. 

As an aside, it's depressing to discover that you have procreated. 

[renton]

23 minutes ago, banana said:

All this compared to what, though?

What are we 'plundering' and from who? Why? Which consequences, are they only negative?

What do you mean by 'the world' operating 'better'? How do you know 12 or 20 billion isn't the optimal number, that we've still a way to go?

We are "plundering" finite resources at an ever increasing rate. Our societal system, based on market capitalism demands it. This must inevitably remove those resources from future consideration, and the effort required to get at those resources re configures the world around it. Whether that is considered as an ecological problem (we destroy or poison vast swathes of forest and ocean), or a political one (we start an almighty war over the last drum of oil; We destroy the life chances of billions of people trapped in an increasingly unequal world), it creates conflict.  Who we're plundering it from is fairly obvious: Future generations who will inherent the world from us, or what is left of it.  

The consequences of this are entirely negative. The majority of the human race live on coastlines and near rivers which is a bit of an issue in a situation where we've all but given up on stopping the world from heating up and keeping the sea levels where they are. That's if the increasing carbon content in the atmosphere doesn't get sunk into the seas, acidifying those bodies and collapsing the food chain with it. 

The carrying capacity of the planet for human life is probably still able to stretch beyond the current 7.4 billion, and an optimal number would be as much based on behaviour as it is on sheer numbers: 7.4 billion vegans recycling their own crap creates far fewer consequences for the planet than the current system, after all. Still, worth noting that we live in a world where species of Rhino - a fairly harmless, fat armoured horse basically -  have been made extinct due simply to the passing resemblance of it's horn to a stauner, and a bunch of arseholes have been snorting ground up horn in a vain attempt to give themselves one. How fucked up is that?

[The Moonster]

32 minutes ago, banana said:

All this compared to what, though?

What are we 'plundering' and from who? Why? Which consequences, are they only negative?

What do you mean by 'the world' operating 'better'? How do you know 12 or 20 billion isn't the optimal number, that we've still a way to go?

I view the way we do things on this planet as wrong and damaging to the environment (which I think there's fair evidence for), why do I need to compare it to anything?

What are we plundering? You really don't need me to explain that to you. The consequences obviously aren't only negative, but I would say on the whole they have a negative affect. Without us, pollution basically doesn't exist. 

Feel free to make the case for 20 billion humans living on the planet, I really don't have the energy for this back and forth.

[Rugster]

I've been as guilty of this as anyone in the past but I've learned my lesson. It would be great if people could stop quoting that trolling moron and giving him the attention he so desperately craves.

[NJ2]

Or "a pint of Tennents" as the pub probably marketed it

Mushroom. Suppers.

[NJ2]

It would be great if people could stop quoting that trolling moron and giving him the attention he so desperately craves.

But nobody quoted you m9?! Zingzingzinglololololol
I thoroughly agree with your actual point. I have been guilty of it but it just descends in to cliched shite without any actual meaning and a waste of everyone’s time

[The OP]

55 minutes ago, Cardinal Richelieu said:

i was sitting in the pub with some chums, with a Polish girl, Czech girl and Romanian guy all sitting on one side of the table and all us Britishers sat on the other. I pointed out that this invisible "iron curtain" they'd drawn between us was a sub-conscious attempt by them to bring back Communism. That went down like a cup of cold sick, as you can imagine. 

I mind meeting an Israeli woman in the pub and walking back to her hotel with her as it was on my way (really 5 miles in the opposite direction obvs). She was stunned by the fact that Scottish people quite readily jaywalk when there are no cars in sight. I noted that I had been in Munich the week before and no-one jaywalked despite it being safe to cross, but also noted that the Germans have always got into bother by being far too willing to follow orders. Not the zinger I thought it was. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by The OP

[Herman Hessian]

2 minutes ago, The OP said:

I mind meeting an Israeli woman in the pub and walking back to her hotel with her as it was on my way (really 5 miles in the opposite direction obvs). She was stunned by the fact that Scottish people quite readily jaywalk when there are no cars in sight. I noted that I had been in Munich the week before and no-one jaywalked despite it being safe to cross, but noted that the Germans have always got into bother by being far too willing to follow orders. Not the zinger I thought it was. 

if you'd only have followed up with "....anyway love, never mind all that take a look at this - it's a foreskin !" whilst waving your cock at her, you'd  could have pretty much started filling in the breakfast options checklist on the dangly door-hanger thing 

[banana]

24 minutes ago, The OP said:

I have a child and I have three nieces and a nephew. They are all different. I'd imagine you're the type of shite parent who talks about 'boys stuff' and 'girls stuff' and would batter your wee boy if he wanted to take up ballet, not realising you are denying yourself some royalties to a very successful musical. 

As an aside, it's depressing to discover that you have procreated. 

Anyway, they are indeed all different, glad you agree!

[banana]

27 minutes ago, renton said:

We are "plundering" finite resources at an ever increasing rate. Our societal system, based on market capitalism demands it. This must inevitably remove those resources from future consideration, and the effort required to get at those resources re configures the world around it. Whether that is considered as an ecological problem (we destroy or poison vast swathes of forest and ocean), or a political one (we start an almighty war over the last drum of oil; We destroy the life chances of billions of people trapped in an increasingly unequal world), it creates conflict.  Who we're plundering it from is fairly obvious: Future generations who will inherent the world from us, or what is left of it.  

The consequences of this are entirely negative. The majority of the human race live on coastlines and near rivers which is a bit of an issue in a situation where we've all but given up on stopping the world from heating up and keeping the sea levels where they are. That's if the increasing carbon content in the atmosphere doesn't get sunk into the seas, acidifying those bodies and collapsing the food chain with it. 

The carrying capacity of the planet for human life is probably still able to stretch beyond the current 7.4 billion, and an optimal number would be as much based on behaviour as it is on sheer numbers: 7.4 billion vegans recycling their own crap creates far fewer consequences for the planet than the current system, after all. Still, worth noting that we live in a world where species of Rhino - a fairly harmless, fat armoured horse basically -  have been made extinct due simply to the passing resemblance of it's horn to a stauner, and a bunch of arseholes have been snorting ground up horn in a vain attempt to give themselves one. How fucked up is that?

Pollution I'll give you, there's work to be done there. Preparing and adapting to ever-inevitable changes in weather patterns, yes, places have always done this naturally anyway (seem monsoon, drought, migrating, moving upstream, etc...).

Are resources really finite (e.g. we're 50 years on from the first oil panics, and we're nowhere close to done), or is it more a matter of technology and human ingenuity? Resources are also reusable and refashionable, again by human ingenuity. We moved on from wood and peat to coal to blubber to oil/gas and increasingly now other fuels, solar and wind. There's a fair amount of resource out in the solar system too. Why do you think we're going to run out now rather than Future Generations adapting and innovating as we always have?

You can't think of one positive consequence of humanity's journey, you're entirely Doomsday about the future?

What are you comparing all this situation to when you judge it to be some overwhelmingly negative?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

32 minutes ago, NJ2 said:

Mushroom. Suppers.

Thursday night m9.

Thursday night.

[banana]

43 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I view the way we do things on this planet as wrong and damaging to the environment (which I think there's fair evidence for), why do I need to compare it to anything?

What are we plundering? You really don't need me to explain that to you. The consequences obviously aren't only negative, but I would say on the whole they have a negative affect. Without us, pollution basically doesn't exist. 

Feel free to make the case for 20 billion humans living on the planet, I really don't have the energy for this back and forth.

How can you make a judgement if you're not comparing it to something else? Why wrong, compared to what? Damaging to the environment compared to what?

Pollution wasn't a thing before humanity? Wat. The atmosphere and makeup of the planet has constantly changed, become 'polluted' for what's living there at the time, with varying consequences. 

I'm not making the case for any number, I'm asking your reasoning why 7.4 billion is too many rather than not enough or just about right.