NJ2 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Thursday night m9. Thursday night.I hope it’s your last 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, banana said: How can you make a judgement if you're not comparing it to something else? Why wrong, compared to what? Damaging to the environment compared to what? Pollution wasn't a thing before humanity? Wat. The atmosphere and makeup of the planet has constantly changed, become 'polluted' for what's living there at the time, with varying consequences. I'm not making the case for any number, I'm asking your reasoning why 7.4 billion is too many rather than not enough or just about right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, banana said: Pollution I'll give you, there's work to be done there. Preparing and adapting to ever-inevitable changes in weather patterns, yes, places have always done this naturally anyway (seem monsoon, drought, migrating, moving upstream, etc...). Are resources really finite (e.g. we're 50 years on from the first oil panics, and we're nowhere close to done), or is it more a matter of technology and human ingenuity? Resources are also reusable and refashionable, again by human ingenuity. We moved on from wood and peat to coal to blubber to oil/gas and increasingly now other fuels, solar and wind. There's a fair amount of resource out in the solar system too. Why do you think we're going to run out now rather than Future Generations adapting and innovating as we always have? You can't think of one positive consequence of humanity's journey, you're entirely Doomsday about the future? What are you comparing all this situation to when you judge it to be some overwhelmingly negative? Ever heard of the Great Cosmic Filter? It's a consequence of the Drake equation used to try and estimate the chances of meeting extra-terrestrial life. It posits that one reason we've never encountered signs from another intelligent species is that whenever a civilisation becomes advanced enough to broadcast signals into space, it shortly thereafter acquires the ability to blow itself sky high, or otherwise destroy itself. Techno-Optimism is all well and good, but it's basically mapping science fiction onto problems that need action now, as a means of denial to avoid changing our lifestyles (I say this as a man who doesn't really enjoy a vegetable unless it's on the side of a slab of red meat). What we are looking at now is a runaway feedback event. It's not so much that weather might get a bit changeable, it's that sea levels must inevitably rise, ocean acidification may well doom whole biospheres, soil erosion may make large scale farming for billions of people an impossibility: Resources are definitely finite, and arable land is top of that list. You talk about a comparison? Even 60-70 years ago, when there was half the human race there was now, we could enjoy beautiful vistas of nature and marvel at the sight of it all. Patting ourselves on the back because we managed to engineer a big enough wall to keep out the dead seas, is hardly a compensation for destroying it all in the name of exploiting the planet. No more Barrier Reef, no more Rhinos, no more Blue Whales, no more coast lines, no more fresh air, no more visiting the Great Pyramids because the equator will be so hot everything that moves will die. And what then when the human race is corralled into tighter enclaves of habitable land, vying for scarcer resources? No more liberty, no more free thought, no more great thinkers, no more privacy, no more art, no more science. No more anything. Edited July 24, 2018 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, NJ2 said: I hope it’s your last Probably have one on Saturdays as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, renton said: Ever heard of the Great Cosmic Filter? It's a consequence of the Drake equation used to try and estimate the chances of meeting extra-terrestrial life. It posits that one reason we've never encountered signs from another intelligent species is that whenever a civilisation becomes advanced enough to broadcast signals into space, it shortly thereafter acquires the ability to blow itself sky high, or otherwise destroy itself. Techno-Optimism is all well and good, but it's basically mapping science fiction onto problems that need action now, as a means of denial to avoid changing our lifestyles (I say this as a man who doesn't really enjoy a vegetable unless it's on the side of a slab of red meat). What we are looking at now is a runaway feedback event. It's not so much that weather might get a bit changeable, it's that sea levels must inevitably rise, ocean acidification may well doom whole biospheres, soil erosion may make large scale farming for billions of people an impossibility: Resources are definitely finite, and arable land is top of that list. You talk about a comparison? Even 60-70 years ago, when there was half the human race there was now, we could enjoy beautiful vistas of nature and marvel at the sight of it all. Patting ourselves on the back because we managed to engineer a big enough wall to keep out the dead seas, is hardly a compensation for destroying it all in the name of exploiting the planet. No more Barrier Reef, no more Rhinos, no more Blue Whales, no more coast lines, no more fresh air, no more visiting the Great Pyramids because the equator will be so hot everything that moves will die. And what then when the human race is corralled into tighter enclaves of habitable land, vying for scarcer resources? No more liberty, no more free thought, no more great thinkers, no more privacy, no more art, no more science. No more anything. No more banana, though. Edited July 24, 2018 by Melanius Mullarkey 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 No more banana, though.Yes! We have no banana. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 The Drake equation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. Brightside said: The Drake equation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ2 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Probably have one on Saturdays as well. Why are you the way you are? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, NJ2 said: Why are you the way you are? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 7 hours ago, renton said: We are "plundering" finite resources at an ever increasing rate. Our societal system, based on market capitalism demands it. This must inevitably remove those resources from future consideration, and the effort required to get at those resources re configures the world around it. Whether that is considered as an ecological problem (we destroy or poison vast swathes of forest and ocean), or a political one (we start an almighty war over the last drum of oil; We destroy the life chances of billions of people trapped in an increasingly unequal world), it creates conflict. Who we're plundering it from is fairly obvious: Future generations who will inherent the world from us, or what is left of it. The consequences of this are entirely negative. The majority of the human race live on coastlines and near rivers which is a bit of an issue in a situation where we've all but given up on stopping the world from heating up and keeping the sea levels where they are. That's if the increasing carbon content in the atmosphere doesn't get sunk into the seas, acidifying those bodies and collapsing the food chain with it. The carrying capacity of the planet for human life is probably still able to stretch beyond the current 7.4 billion, and an optimal number would be as much based on behaviour as it is on sheer numbers: 7.4 billion vegans recycling their own crap creates far fewer consequences for the planet than the current system, after all. Still, worth noting that we live in a world where species of Rhino - a fairly harmless, fat armoured horse basically - have been made extinct due simply to the passing resemblance of it's horn to a stauner, and a bunch of arseholes have been snorting ground up horn in a vain attempt to give themselves one. How fucked up is that? Humans, a great bunch of lads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 13 hours ago, renton said: Ever heard of the Great Cosmic Filter? It's a consequence of the Drake equation used to try and estimate the chances of meeting extra-terrestrial life. It posits that one reason we've never encountered signs from another intelligent species is that whenever a civilisation becomes advanced enough to broadcast signals into space, it shortly thereafter acquires the ability to blow itself sky high, or otherwise destroy itself. Techno-Optimism is all well and good, but it's basically mapping science fiction onto problems that need action now, as a means of denial to avoid changing our lifestyles (I say this as a man who doesn't really enjoy a vegetable unless it's on the side of a slab of red meat). What we are looking at now is a runaway feedback event. It's not so much that weather might get a bit changeable, it's that sea levels must inevitably rise, ocean acidification may well doom whole biospheres, soil erosion may make large scale farming for billions of people an impossibility: Resources are definitely finite, and arable land is top of that list. You talk about a comparison? Even 60-70 years ago, when there was half the human race there was now, we could enjoy beautiful vistas of nature and marvel at the sight of it all. Patting ourselves on the back because we managed to engineer a big enough wall to keep out the dead seas, is hardly a compensation for destroying it all in the name of exploiting the planet. No more Barrier Reef, no more Rhinos, no more Blue Whales, no more coast lines, no more fresh air, no more visiting the Great Pyramids because the equator will be so hot everything that moves will die. And what then when the human race is corralled into tighter enclaves of habitable land, vying for scarcer resources? No more liberty, no more free thought, no more great thinkers, no more privacy, no more art, no more science. No more anything. As this is the unpopular opinions thread, I wonder if any posters have any ideas for dealing with overpopulation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Richelieu Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, coprolite said: As this is the unpopular opinions thread, I wonder if any posters have any ideas for dealing with overpopulation? Pick 3.8 billion names out a hat and execute them all. That way, you won't be left with any unlucky people. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Pick 3.8 billion names out a hat and execute them all. That way, you won't be left with any unlucky people. Would need to be Im Rodgers hat I would think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Richelieu Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: 9 hours ago, Cardinal Richelieu said: Pick 3.8 billion names out a hat and execute them all. That way, you won't be left with any unlucky people. Would need to be Im Rodgers hat I would think How come? Is he a cowboy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 On 7/24/2018 at 16:19, Cardinal Richelieu said: i was sitting in the pub with some chums, with a Polish girl, Czech girl and Romanian guy all sitting on one side of the table and all us Britishers sat on the other. I pointed out that this invisible "iron curtain" they'd drawn between us was a sub-conscious attempt by them to bring back Communism. That went down like a cup of cold sick, as you can imagine. The guy I wound up used to regularly come out with opinions like people from the UK being prone to hay fever and being generally defective in other ways because they are seriously inbred as there have been no regular invasions like the ones Poland has experienced across the North European plane to keep mixing up the gene pool, so like a lot of people he could dish it out, but wasn't quite so good at taking it . Having listened to his patter on a daily basis for a few years I could definitely tell that it wouldn't be much fun being a gay Jewish communist in Warsaw (or Lodz in his case). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 There's something weird about men in their 30s and 40s with families playing computer games for hours at a time. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Quite a lot of the 'wind-up' / banter I see among friends and family is actually really passive aggressive, people saying what they really think in a horrible, jabbing way rather than actually speaking about how they feel and sorting out issues they have with the people close to them. It's frightening to see how poorly most people communicate and how selfish and myopic they can be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, Cardinal Richelieu said: How come? Is he a cowboy? Yes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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