RandomGuy. Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I tend to see success as success. You know. Honours and shit. So Alex McLeish has been a better manager than Arsene Wenger in the last five years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermonkey Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 So Alex McLeish has been a better manager than Arsene Wenger in the last five years? And michael laudrup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Is finishing fourth consistently a success? Surely it's been the absolute minimum acceptable the majority of those eight years. Man City have only been a threat for the last four years, which coincided with Liverpool turning to shit. Everton and Villa sometimes challenged before that, but finishing below them would have required a catastrophe of Dalglish proportions. Spurs have been serious challengers the last couple of years, but for most of this time there's not been a credible threat to their top four status. Also on the spending point, while obviously they couldn't keep up with City or Chelsea, there have been times when Wenger has had money to spend and he's chosen not to use it despite their weaknesses. You can excuse him for not consistently challenging with the budget excuse, but not for falling quite so far behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jambo-rocker Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I find it incredibly impressive how Wenger keeps Arsenal consistently in the top 4. Fair enough the fans are impatient over wanting a trophy and rightly so although I don't think calling for his head is fair. He has done it in a fashion where Arsenal have not spent outwith their means, where you can argue that Man U, City and Chelsea and even Liverpool have spunked millions without really showing the full value of the warchests that they respectively utilized for any period any longer than a season at best. Every time Wenger has been under pressure, he's came back fighting in emphatic style every time to at the bare minimum keep them in the top 4, and he's done it without panic buying a single player worth more than the £15 million he put on Arshavin, who turned to be a flop for them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forehead7 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I tend to see success as success. You know. Honours and shit. That's just a part of it though, 15 years in a row in the Champion's League is pretty successful. The type of people who complain about them having not won a trophy in however long are the types of people who would slaughter and call for his head if they got knocked out in the qualifiers or failed to finish top 4. Wenger is doing the right thing by concentrating on the Champions League and Premier League and not bothering with the cups because their squad isn't big enough to carry three/four competitions worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaviliunas Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 here it is again for the last time finishing top 4 isn't some sort of trophy, and why do people consistently make out wenger couldn't have balanced the cup competitions with going for top 4. Apparantly this is some impossible task and if wenger tried it arsenal would finish 8th below everton and liverpool aye ok :lol: At the end of the day it's not just wenger a fault it's the boards, wenger is one of the best managers around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 But they're not title challengers anymore, that's why it's a sign of success. Chelsea and Man City coming in with their big money has pushed them down. They tightened their spending when the new stadium got built so that they could pay it off and not let their debt spiral out of control, that's caused them to not be able to compete and even the likes of Tottenham have caught up on them, that's why finishing 4th is such a success This isn't true at all. Arsenal's football spending has absolutely dwarfed Tottenham over any period you like really. Arsenal's wage bill is enormously high, and comfortably the 4th highest in the league. For Arsenal 4th place should absolutely be expected every season. Wenger achieving that is merely par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forehead7 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 This isn't true at all. Arsenal's football spending has absolutely dwarfed Tottenham over any period you like really. Arsenal's wage bill is enormously high, and comfortably the 4th highest in the league. For Arsenal 4th place should absolutely be expected every season. Wenger achieving that is merely par. I didn't mean in terms of spending, I meant in terms of performances etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I didn't mean in terms of spending, I meant in terms of performances etc. Ah right. Fair enough. I think their biggest problem is how expensive their home tickets are. Probably the easiest way to get people off Arsene Wenger's back is to cut the price for season tickets to something more palatable, which given their other income wouldn't cost too much. I can understand why people paying 2 x what Man U fans are for their seats are fucked off that they are a feeder club for the more successful and the height of their ambitions are 3rd in the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Arsenal's football spending has absolutely dwarfed Tottenham over any period you like really What about the last decade? 2012/2013 - Tottenham spent £10m more 2011/2012 - Arsenal spent £45m more 2010/2011 - Tottenham spent £18m more 2009/2010 - Tottenham spent £22m more 2008/2009 - Tottenham spent £72m more 2007/2008 - Tottenham spent £17m more 2006/2007 - Tottenham spent £35m more 2005/2006 - Arsenal spent £3m more 2004/2005 - Tottenham spent £12m more 2003/2004 - Arsenal spent £7m more So in the last ten seasons, Tottenham have outspent Arsenal in 7 of them. And have spent almost £131 million pounds more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 What about the last decade? 2012/2013 - Tottenham spent £10m more 2011/2012 - Arsenal spent £45m more 2010/2011 - Tottenham spent £18m more 2009/2010 - Tottenham spent £22m more 2008/2009 - Tottenham spent £72m more 2007/2008 - Tottenham spent £17m more 2006/2007 - Tottenham spent £35m more 2005/2006 - Arsenal spent £3m more 2004/2005 - Tottenham spent £12m more 2003/2004 - Arsenal spent £7m more So in the last ten seasons, Tottenham have outspent Arsenal in 7 of them. And have spent almost £131 million pounds more Utter rubbish I'm afraid. That would ignore what you actuall pay players . As I have proven numerous times on this board, Arsenal's footballing spending (in wages and transfers) absolutely dwarfs Tottenham's. Over the past decade Arsenal have spent well over £150 million more than Tottenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forehead7 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Jesus, I can't believe you just tried to argue football spending with H_B and didn't think to mention wages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Rookie error! "In 1995-96, Arsenal came fifth, averaged 37,578 at the gate, had a £21m turnover on which they made a £3.6m pre-tax loss after paying £10m in wages. Spurs were eighth, averaged 30,510, had a £27m turnover (from a 14-month accounting period) on which they made a £2.9m pre-tax profit after paying £11.4m in wages. At the time Alan Sugar, their chairman, raged at the rising wage bill." "Tottenham's latest accounts (2010-11) revealed a wage bill of £91m. But turnover was up to £163m enabling Levy to turn a £32m profit before spending £20m net on players. However, that included Champions League income. Spurs normally turn over around £120m. Arsenal's income since moving to the Emirates has averaged around £225m." "Arsenal have, of course, been constrained by the cost of building their own new stadium. Nevertheless, the huge income it brings, and Wenger's parsimony in the transfer market, has enabled them to outstrip Tottenham's wage bill by an average £40m each season. In football there is a very strong correlation between wages and finishing positions and it has applied in north London as much as anywhere. The last Spurs manager to finish above Arsenal was Gerry Francis. Then Wenger appeared. He has since seen off eight counterparts." Since he (Levy) became chairman in February 2001, his managers have spent a net £220m (£190m more than Wenger). http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/daniel-levys-genius-has-given-spurs-a-chance-to-finally-rein-in-rivals-arsenal-8324093.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 So Tottenham spend more on transfers than Arsenal, but that difference is more than matched and exceeded by Arsenal's enormous wage bill. This has allowed them to have a much greater squad depth and wage ceiling than Spurs. Arsenal spend much more than Spurs. And to be fair, finish ahead of them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Let's not forget, Wenger is paid a small fortune himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Let's not forget, Wenger is paid a small fortune himself Which is I believe partly influenced by his parsimony in the transfer market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 I'm sure at the time Arsenal played Bayern in February, Bayern's wage bill was only slightly higher (I could be wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Giroud really on fire right now, very nice tenacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 I'm sure at the time Arsenal played Bayern in February, Bayern's wage bill was only slightly higher (I could be wrong). No, I think you are correct. As I recall, according to Rafael Honigstein, last season Bayern's wage bill was £165 m Euros, and Arsenal's was £177 m Euros. People have bought the "poor Arsenal, Wenger is battling manfully with peanuts to spend" and it isn't reality at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Podolski cool as a fkin cucumber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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