Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[ICTJohnboy]

It's quite incredible, the amount of people who are spouting blatant bullshit in this Rangers saga, and expect people to believe it. David Murray - 'I was duped, my advisors were duped, the bank was duped.... should never have sold to Whyte...' In the name of the wee man (not Chick), does he think anyone, even someone who posts regularly on Rangers Media, will believe even one word of this?

I'd actually have more respect for Minty Moonbeams if he just came out with the truth, which I believe to be....

'My business empire was in trouble, my years of reckless spending and cheating at Rangers was starting to catch up on me. The bank wanted their money, and I could see the shit just about to hit the fan big time - I needed out, and quick. No-one of any substance or integrity would touch the mess I'd made with a shitty stick... but fcuk me, if Del Boy Whyte didn't turn up at my door one day with a cunning plan. It was very complicated, and to be honest, I didn't understand a lot of it. The wee bug-eyed creep lost me when talk of Ticketus, Octopus, Wavetower, Lloyds, Duff & Phelps, administration, liquidation, and a newco Rangers all started to blend into one. I just nodded, and said, yeah, yeah, yeah... whatever. All I needed to know was, will we get away with it? If you give me a quid, and I walk away, is this the last I'll hear of this? My name will be left well out of it? You pay off Lloyds, shut them up and get them off my case, then you can crack on shafting everyone in sight - get a nice wedge for yourself, then piss off back to Monaco, leaving some other saps to pick up the pieces?

Wow, sounds great, I can't see the back of this shite quick enough. Right Whytey, it's a deal. One problem though - there'll be some questions, a bit of paperwork to fill out. My advisors will need to see something to keep them happy. Tell you what, I'll set up a meeting with them next week. You bring some I.D.... a utility bill, driving licence, something with your name and address on it, that'll do the trick. Magic, right I'm off for a Starbucks, see you next week Whytey. Boosh, job done.'

...obviously I'm just guessing this is what really happened.

I'd say that was a pretty good guess!

[Dindeleux]

It's definitely wrong all RBS Swift codes need the RBOS. What a bunch of fannies.

Mmmm, I kind of thought this aswell.

It needs to either have RBOS on it or, on the off chance its Bank Of Scotland it should have HBOS.

Its 100% wrong - format not recognized:

http://www.natwest.com/apps/secure/tools/iban_new/Iban/IBAN_Checker.aspx?Theme=rbs

Edited March 14, 2012 by Dindeleux

[Macshimmy]

From some wee spikey-haired tosspot in the Herald:

"CAMPBELL OGILVIE, the Scottish Football Association president, was last night cleared by Sir David Murray of any involvement in the payment

or administering of the controversial Employment Benefit Trust scheme used by Rangers for a decade."

Oh well thats all perfectly fine then. Sorry for getting your collar dirty there Mr. Ogilvie Sir.

No need to waste any more time investigating him eh? He's in the clear boys.

[Baxter Parp]

From some wee spikey-haired tosspot in the Herald:

"CAMPBELL OGILVIE, the Scottish Football Association president, was last night cleared by Sir David Murray of any involvement in the payment

or administering of the controversial Employment Benefit Trust scheme used by Rangers for a decade."

Oh well thats all perfectly fine then. Sorry for getting your collar dirty there Mr. Ogilvie Sir.

No need to waste any more time investigating him eh? He's in the clear boys.

If not the club secretary then who was involved in the payments?

Baffling.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Baxter Parp

[Desert Nomad]

Brian Kennedy to bid to buy Rangers on Friday. What's the script with him? Don't know much about him other than he's loaded.

Says he doesn't really want to buy the club, but has no option as doesn't want to see them die.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Desert Nomad

[Homer Thompson]

I don't think it is necessarily being suggested that there were literally two contracts - one for the SFA to see and another one for the player. The suggestion is that the side letters regarding EBTs could be construed as "a second contract". This is based on the apparent indication that those payments were not merely "discretionary" but were linked directly to appearances in the team.

To my knowledge the only evidence so far in the public domain is the letter in The Sun from a few weeks ago. Murray does seem to confirm that that was genuine and was not unique. He is arguing that it was not a second contract and was merely a "letter of intent". (If that's the crux of the argument in trying to appeal against a crippling tax liability then it's no wonder they're not expected to win that case!).

Does it matter if the payments were discretionary, as Murray claims? Surely, it would still form part of the players contract of employment and therefore should have been registered with the SFA/SPL. You would have to ask, if all this is above board why were these payments not registered with the SFA/SPl? Surely it would have been easier to register them, even if they didnt, technically, have to?

Does anyone actually believe that these players signed on the back of some money that wasnt guaranteed to be paid to them?

I also loved Murrays "clearing" of Ogilvie. "He wasnt involved in paying people" - no but he was Secretary and therefore responsible for contracts and complying with SFA/SPL rules

[Homer Thompson]

Brian Kennedy to bid to buy Rangers on Friday. What's the script with him? Don't know much about him other than he's loaded.

Says he doesn't really want to buy the club, but has no option as doesn't want to see them die.

Interesting reading

This is even better

Edited March 14, 2012 by Mr X

[Colin M]

Does it matter if the payments were discretionary, as Murray claims? Surely, it would still form part of the players contract of employment and therefore should have been registered with the SFA/SPL. You would have to ask, if all this is above board why were these payments not registered with the SFA/SPl? Surely it would have been easier to register them, even if they didnt, technically, have to?

Does anyone actually believe that these players signed on the back of some money that wasnt guaranteed to be paid to them?

I also loved Murrays "clearing" of Ogilvie. "He wasnt involved in paying people" - no but he was Secretary and therefore responsible for contracts and complying with SFA/SPL rules

Yep, totally agree. It does seem absurd to imagine that the players received "letters of intent" outlining how they would be paid extra money that was not recorded with the authorities, and that it was then somehow "discretionary".

I note that Murray and his cohort again reiterate to the Scottish media that they are not being accused of doing anything illegal re the Big Tax Case. From the RTC blog on 29th March 2011:

“No one has been accused of doing anything illegal”: Yes they have. Rangers FC have been accused of breaking UK tax law. The First Tier Tribunal process is a civil matter, and there is no current criminal case against anyone. However, that is at the discretion of HMRC and it will remain at the discretion of HMRC whether to bring criminal charges in the future. In cases not involving lawyers or financial professionals, it is unusual to go down the criminal path as the burden of proof is much higher. Depending on how things turn out, and how much of the bill is actually extracted from Rangers, it is mot impossible that individuals could be pursued. However, that would be quite some way down the road- if it ever happens at all.

[Homer Thompson]

Yep, totally agree. It does seem absurd to imagine that the players received "letters of intent" outlining how they would be paid extra money that was not recorded with the authorities, and that it was then somehow "discretionary".

I note that Murray and his cohort again reiterate to the Scottish media that they are not being accused of doing anything illegal re the Big Tax Case. From the RTC blog on 29th March 2011:

Yeah, I noticed that too. Its nothing more than redirection though. It doesnt matter if what they did was illegal or not. All that matters is how much the end up owing HMRC and whether or not they broke SFA/SPL rules. The actual legality of it isnt really relevant.

[Colin M]

Yeah, I noticed that too. Its nothing more than redirection though. It doesnt matter if what they did was illegal or not. All that matters is how much the end up owing HMRC and whether or not they broke SFA/SPL rules. The actual legality of it isnt really relevant.

Yeah - he might as well have just said "NONE OF THIS IS MY FAULT, HONEST LADS, PS LEAVE CAMPBELL ALONE".

[Granny Danger]

Yeah, I noticed that too. Its nothing more than redirection though. It doesnt matter if what they did was illegal or not. All that matters is how much the end up owing HMRC and whether or not they broke SFA/SPL rules. The actual legality of it isnt really relevant.

This will be a key issue. However much the Scottish football establishment will bend over backwards to help Rangers, in their present form or as a newco, if the contracts that were registered with the SFA did not fully disclose the financial arrangements between the club and the players then it will be impossible for the SFA to ignore this however hard they may try. It will also have implications for any European competitions they were involved with during that time.

[Fistle]

Aplogies if already posted, made me laugh. WTF are that mob all about?

SUPPORTERS donating cash to save Rangers feared their dosh had gone to two CLOWNS following an email blunder.

It came after Ibrox legend Walter Smith yesterday launched the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund to help rescue his stricken club.

But followers were mistakenly told to email assembly@bluenose. co.uk — when the correct email is assembly@thebluenose.co.uk And punters who checked out the website www.bluenose.co.uk to find out what was happening discovered it belonged to kids' entertainers Mr and Mrs Custard.

Last night a club source said: "It was a wee hiccup which was sorted out within an hour.

"Everyone can see the funny side. No money could have been deposited in the clown accounts." Earlier former boss Smith joined ex-player Sandy Jardine in urging Gers punters to donate cash to help secure the club's future.

And Jardine said: "The fans' support will help safeguard the club's future."

[betting competition]

http://www.thescotti. ..s-to-Whyte.html

I LOVE that Murray has basically said "Yeah, we Googled Whyte and everything seemed kosher. Whadda mistaka to maka"

Indeed that comment made me laugh, its not hard to pay a little money for a company credit reports. You can find out a lot of information on certain amount of people dealing with limited companies.

Why does the press make Murray seem like the good guy? unbelievable.

[Gaz FFC]

Why does the press make Murray seem like the good guy? unbelievable.

Back in the 90s I spent a lot of time slagging Murray for his spending and calling him thick. Even as a teenager u could see the guy didn't have a clue what he was doing and mas amazed this eejit had made millions. The reply I used to get was "he's in a wheelchair" apparently disabled people are immune from taking abuse. The media seem to think so.

[GreenockRover]

Had to do a bit of catch up from a few pages back.... this thread just keeps on giving and giving.... honestly it's beyond Gold

Thank the stars I have to go back to work for a fortnight.... I have done fcuk all this last fortnight (it seems) but laugh at / with the contributions thrown up here. It fair takes yer mind of relegation fights !

Oh gawd - just had a thought.... what do I do when it's all over ?? Oh no....... I'm .......ADDICTED, a junkie, desperate for my next fix of acerbic humour and OF / SFA / SPL ridicule

Oh wait........ endless supply......

Panic over

[pozbaird]

Indeed that comment made me laugh, its not hard to pay a little money for a company credit reports. You can find out a lot of information on certain amount of people dealing with limited companies.

Why does the press make Murray seem like the good guy? unbelievable.

The thing is, it isn't unbelievable at all. Most, certainly not all, but most of the Scottish media keyboard jockeys have their dicks rammed up the Old Firm's arse - and in the case of Rangers, have had a 20 year period of sooking Souness and Murray's boaby, and this Rangers crisis is a crushing blow for them. All they have to do is to write 'Rangers interested in Spanish wunderkid, Walter Smith set to beat Liverpool for his signature...' and the hordes will lap it up and buy their papers. Same goes for the green half of the cheek.

Us diddy fans sit on the outside looking in - and we shake our heads in utter disbelief. The blue hordes think everyone is against them in 'the mhedia', while the green hordes reckon it's all an establishment conspiracy against their poor downtrodden club. You couldn't make it up. Talk about a bag of King Edwards on each shoulder.

Tom English, Graeme Spiers, the bloke from Channel 4, and a few others are speaking up and talking a bit of sense. The rest (most notably the more visible ones who appear on talk-ins and the radio on Saturdays) are capable of no more than repeating 'we need Rangers...the TV deal, the TV deal, money, money, we need Rangers' ad infintum. They're like a deranged sat nav' that simply won't see the way ahead and continually attempts to send you up a blind alley.

They are addicts. Hooked on two decades of Old Firm gossip and fawning at their feet. They'll do anything. Before a St Mirren v Rangers game, out came the 'Rangers looking to sign Andy Dorman' stories... that will be repeated a thousand times elsewhere. They are Old Firm whores, and are baulking at one of their clients contracting a nasty troublesome disease at present.

They need help. So do Rangers, but the fcuking SPL and SFA better not roll over and allow Rangers to rape them up the arse. Too many people are watching now. The suits at Hampden, Doncaster & Regan, the 'gang of 10'... cards on the table time is coming soon guys, what are you holding?

[Colin M]

The thing is, it isn't unbelievable at all. Most, certainly not all, but most of the Scottish media keyboard jockeys have their dicks rammed up the Old Firm's arse - and in the case of Rangers, have had a 20 year period of sooking Souness and Murray's boaby, and this Rangers crisis is a crushing blow for them. All they have to do is to write 'Rangers interested in Spanish wunderkid, Walter Smith set to beat Liverpool for his signature...' and the hordes will lap it up and buy their papers. Same goes for the green half of the cheek.

Us diddy fans sit on the outside looking in - and we shake our heads in utter disbelief. The blue hordes think everyone is against them in 'the mhedia', while the green hordes reckon it's all an establishment conspiracy against their poor downtrodden club. You couldn't make it up. Talk about a bag of King Edwards on each shoulder.

Tom English, Graeme Spiers, the bloke from Channel 4, and a few others are speaking up and talking a bit of sense. The rest (most notably the more visible ones who appear on talk-ins and the radio on Saturdays) are capable of no more than repeating 'we need Rangers...the TV deal, the TV deal, money, money, we need Rangers' ad infintum. They're like a deranged sat nav' that simply won't see the way ahead and continually attempts to send you up a blind alley.

They are addicts. Hooked on two decades of Old Firm gossip and fawning at their feet. They'll do anything. Before a St Mirren v Rangers game, out came the 'Rangers looking to sign Andy Dorman' stories... that will be repeated a thousand times elsewhere. They are Old Firm whores, and are baulking at one of their clients contracting a nasty troublesome disease at present.

They need help. So do Rangers, but the fcuking SPL and SFA better not roll over and allow Rangers to rape them up the arse. Too many people are watching now. The suits at Hampden, Doncaster & Regan, the 'gang of 10'... cards on the table time is coming soon guys, what are you holding?

Their industry, at least the newspaper industry, is under threat. They need to shift units and the way to do that is sensational stories. The way to obtain those stories has been to enjoy a cozy relationship with the big boys. In that respect it is similar to newspapers relationship with top level politicians - you need to cut them some slack so they don't shut the door on you.

In some ways that is understandable - don't bite the hand that feeds you. Only problem is, when the stories are bad for those people involved, you have a conflict of interest. You can go all out on it but the risk is that they shut the door, and your readership say "boycott the <insert paper here>, they have an agenda against the Ranjurz!".

It's a simplistic view, but there is an element of truth in it. The Chicks, Hughs, Darrels and Jabbas of this world have a good thing going with the status quo. I know some would say they are so set in their ways that they now can't even see a world outwith what has existed for the last 2-3 decades. They are fighting to save their own world as much as to save a football club.

That's the theory, at least.....

[pozbaird]

Their industry, at least the newspaper industry, is under threat. They need to shift units and the way to do that is sensational stories. The way to obtain those stories has been to enjoy a cozy relationship with the big boys. In that respect it is similar to newspapers relationship with top level politicians - you need to cut them some slack so they don't shut the door on you.

In some ways that is understandable - don't bite the hand that feeds you. Only problem is, when the stories are bad for those people involved, you have a conflict of interest. You can go all out on it but the risk is that they shut the door, and your readership say "boycott the <insert paper here>, they have an agenda against the Ranjurz!".

It's a simplistic view, but there is an element of truth in it. The Chicks, Hughs, Darrels and Jabbas of this world have a good thing going with the status quo. I know some would say they are so set in their ways that they now can't even see a world outwith what has existed for the last 2-3 decades. They are fighting to save their own world as much as to save a football club.

That's the theory, at least.....

I don't disagree with any of that, and of course a lot of it is understandable. Having said that, even allowing for the fact some of them don't want to upset their cosy applecart - a wee bit of objectivity wouldn't go amiss.

Apologies for forgetting the 'bloke from Channel 4s' name - but in his blog, he made reference to the hundreds of e-mails he got from non-OF fans, and how the majority of people did not want Rangers wiped from the face of the earth, but simply to see fair play, and for no underhand dealings 'just because it is Rangers'.

There's far more reasoned debate in this forum thread, than there is from many of our media chums.

[GreenockRover]

Their industry, at least the newspaper industry, is under threat. They need to shift units and the way to do that is sensational stories. The way to obtain those stories has been to enjoy a cozy relationship with the big boys. In that respect it is similar to newspapers relationship with top level politicians - you need to cut them some slack so they don't shut the door on you.

In some ways that is understandable - don't bite the hand that feeds you. Only problem is, when the stories are bad for those people involved, you have a conflict of interest. You can go all out on it but the risk is that they shut the door, and your readership say "boycott the <insert paper here>, they have an agenda against the Ranjurz!".

It's a simplistic view, but there is an element of truth in it. The Chicks, Hughs, Darrels and Jabbas of this world have a good thing going with the status quo. I know some would say they are so set in their ways that they now can't even see a world outwith what has existed for the last 2-3 decades. They are fighting to save their own world as much as to save a football club.

That's the theory, at least.....

...and close enough too be true.

What that proves is the fact that they are not "journalists" at all. They are PR hacks and everything they write should be seen in that context alone....and thrown at them when they appear in their sanctimonious disguise of an "expert" or "pundit" or "analyst" on the box.

Tossers - the lot of 'em....

[betting competition]

The thing is, it isn't unbelievable at all. Most, certainly not all, but most of the Scottish media keyboard jockeys have their dicks rammed up the Old Firm's arse - and in the case of Rangers, have had a 20 year period of sooking Souness and Murray's boaby, and this Rangers crisis is a crushing blow for them. All they have to do is to write 'Rangers interested in Spanish wunderkid, Walter Smith set to beat Liverpool for his signature...' and the hordes will lap it up and buy their papers. Same goes for the green half of the cheek.

Us diddy fans sit on the outside looking in - and we shake our heads in utter disbelief. The blue hordes think everyone is against them in 'the mhedia', while the green hordes reckon it's all an establishment conspiracy against their poor downtrodden club. You couldn't make it up. Talk about a bag of King Edwards on each shoulder.

Tom English, Graeme Spiers, the bloke from Channel 4, and a few others are speaking up and talking a bit of sense. The rest (most notably the more visible ones who appear on talk-ins and the radio on Saturdays) are capable of no more than repeating 'we need Rangers...the TV deal, the TV deal, money, money, we need Rangers' ad infintum. They're like a deranged sat nav' that simply won't see the way ahead and continually attempts to send you up a blind alley.

They are addicts. Hooked on two decades of Old Firm gossip and fawning at their feet. They'll do anything. Before a St Mirren v Rangers game, out came the 'Rangers looking to sign Andy Dorman' stories... that will be repeated a thousand times elsewhere. They are Old Firm whores, and are baulking at one of their clients contracting a nasty troublesome disease at present.

They need help. So do Rangers, but the fcuking SPL and SFA better not roll over and allow Rangers to rape them up the arse. Too many people are watching now. The suits at Hampden, Doncaster & Regan, the 'gang of 10'... cards on the table time is coming soon guys, what are you holding?

Indeed well said

I forgot to add that Murray could have got a decent Lawyer to check Whyte out and imho he knew what he was selling rangers to a dodgy person but was so desperate to sell because of the tax problems (obviously).

I amazed at how poor radio scotland coverage of the rangers problems has been. Listened to the podcast yesterday when Young defending Campbell Ogilvie and that was another cringeworthy moment again.

Edited March 14, 2012 by betting competition