chrismcarab Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 One minor point on that article: CVA's don't necessarily work for the good of the creditors, just because 75% of them agreed. Dundee disgracefully pushed through a CVA by including all of their backers funding as the softest loans you'll ever see. Despite not wanting a penny back, he agreed to it being put on the creditors list to crucially dilute HMRC (the proper creditor) below the 25% mark. I don't know how the sums add up for Rangers (and doubt even Duff and Phelps have a clue), but I wouldn't entirely put it past them getting a CVA agreed using the same dirty tricks. Not likely, but plausible. I see what you're saying but the RFF and Millers/TBK money wouldn't make that much of a dent in £193 million would it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkshirepud Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Aren't the liquidators controlling the incubator doing so on behalf of the creditors at least in theory. There is a suspicion that in this case they may not be serving the creditors interests as well as they might but that's another question. Essentially The liquidators bundle up the assets into a viable company and sell it off to try and get the creditors some of their money back. Can anyone tell me how the Oldco can work to reduce the debt when there are no assets left to generate cash? Would this then mean the only cash within the Oldco is from the sale of assets, at probably significantly reduced value? If so, how does this represent value for the creditors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Bet they'll try to do it by offering Ticketus a sneaky under the table deal. Put yourselves down as an unsecured creditor for now to fcuk up the Taxman, and we'll wangle you a hefty wedge after the CVA's been agreed.. Not convinced that would put Ticketus in the driving seat, frankly. I don't think there's much that can reduce HMRC's wedge to less than 25%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I see what you're saying but the RFF and Millers/TBK money wouldn't make that much of a dent in £193 million would it? The Big Tax Case isn't on the Creditors List. Yet. If the case is called anytime soon (and surely to f**k a judgement is due by now?) then they would be absolutely shafted. Even if Rangers appeal for the time being the debt would surely stand until the appeal is heard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Bet they'll try to do it by offering Ticketus a sneaky under the table deal. Put yourselves down as an unsecured creditor for now to fcuk up the Taxman, and we'll wangle you a hefty wedge after the CVA's been agreed.. Look where the last under the table deal got them. Somehow I doubt they're going to go down that road twice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The Big Tax Case isn't on the Creditors List. Yet. If the case is called anytime soon (and surely to f**k a judgement is due by now?) then they would be absolutely shafted. Even if Rangers appeal for the time being the debt would surely stand until the appeal is heard. But they do owe it until an appeal states otherwise if I understand correctly? Going by that podcast thingy today with the insolvency people, the BTC would have to be included in any CVA as it is a pending debt (i think). God this is confusing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 RangersTaxCase's angle on Miller's bid.. Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase If players, Ibrox & M.Park are in newco, what will oldco offer to satisfy £135m of creditors? Possible to move some assets into a newco and try CVA with oldco. In RFC case, oldco would have no assets to do a CVA. So it's a stupid idea 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeHectorPar Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I think he's actually quite ill and needs help, but his blog is one of the best things to come out of these 700 odd pages. Why does he call Graham Spiers "ODIOUS CREEP"? And why does he write Phil McGillivan's name as one word? And why does he insist on writing Alexander James Thomson's name in full? Is this a Barack Hussein Obama thing? I'm not sure anyone actually believes Thomson was comparing Ally McCoist to Charles Taylor. I think he has programmed the expressions into his word processor; thus "ctrl+P" gives him "Paul Murray and the True Blue Knights" and "ctrl + O" gives out "Odious Creep". Let's face it it must be tedious typing out the Murray thing twenty times in the same blog though this doesn't stop him saying the same thing over and over again in 20 different ways. I used to look forward to reading his blog each day but as Rangers have descended ever closer to the black hole of their own making he has become that "ctrl + T" word (TEDIOUS) as he vainly clutches at the slightest straw that can prove to his deluded mind that Rangers are the victims of a Vatican-led papist conspiracy to wipe out the protestant religion. I nonetheless look forward to reading his reaction when the dreaded L-word comes about...that is if his keyboard withstands the inevitable flood of tears that he will inflict upon it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 At the linked to site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/scottish/gossip/ There's this snippet: SPL clubs have been warned they face losing £600,000 each season if Rangers are forced out of the top flight. (Daily Express) So ... 600/12=50. Fifty thosuand quid on average, not to mention the division of the the money being slanted towards the top two ... The loss of the those 600 thousand per season will kill Scottish football ... What BS! Borys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skudbook Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 1335886306[/url]' post='6192337']RangersTaxCase's angle on Miller's bid.. The whole process is designed to get rangers to the end of the season AND appears to be endorsed by the SPL. Massive Bunfight On Mon 14th May ( tesco sales of dancing shoe polish soar) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I suspect it means £600,000 per club. E.g. TV deal next season supposed to be worth £16M. If actually worth ~£7M, then there's a £9M loss... equating to £600k for the clubs otherwise expected to finish 3rd-12th (they get 68% of prizemonies). Tbh it could be more than £600k if gates and future naming rights deals are taken into consideration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) But they do owe it until an appeal states otherwise if I understand correctly? Going by that podcast thingy today with the insolvency people, the BTC would have to be included in any CVA as it is a pending debt (i think). God this is confusing. To add to your confusion, just think of a room with the administrators there, the Bloo Nights, King Billy Miller, and just for fun add Sandy Jardine and Ally. The only doors out of the room are all locked, and the person with the keys is Craig Whyte. You can beat your head against the walls and doors all you like but the only way out is to phone Craigy boy and ask nicely. Edited May 1, 2012 by thelegendthatis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I think he has programmed the expressions into his word processor; thus "ctrl+P" gives him "Paul Murray and the True Blue Knights" and "ctrl + O" gives out "Odious Creep". Let's face it it must be tedious typing out the Murray thing twenty times in the same blog though this doesn't stop him saying the same thing over and over again in 20 different ways. I used to look forward to reading his blog each day but as Rangers have descended ever closer to the black hole of their own making he has become that "ctrl + T" word (TEDIOUS) as he vainly clutches at the slightest straw that can prove to his deluded mind that Rangers are the victims of a Vatican-led papist conspiracy to wipe out the protestant religion. I nonetheless look forward to reading his reaction when the dreaded L-word comes about...that is if his keyboard withstands the inevitable flood of tears that he will inflict upon it. LEGGO with keyboard shortcuts? Nah - he DICTATES his blog to an under person who fires it on that INTERNET for him! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I suspect it means £600,000 per club. E.g. TV deal next season supposed to be worth £16M. If actually worth ~£7M, then there's a £9M loss... equating to £600k for the clubs otherwise expected to finish 3rd-12th (they get 68% of prizemonies). Tbh it could be more than £600k if gates and future naming rights deals are taken into consideration. Was it £22million paid last year to agents by SPL clubs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) God bless you, Thailand. Sorry, we can't take the credit for this one. I think it comes from Taiwan or Korea Edited May 1, 2012 by SlipperyP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I suspect it means £600,000 per club. OK - that could change the picture somewhat Borys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Can anyone point to a single example where HMRC have agreed a CVA when they have been in a position to block one - i.e. being owed more than 25% of the debt. If there is such an example how much were they getting paid in the pound? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Was it £22million paid last year to agents by SPL clubs? I've no idea... considering that clubs outside the OF paying transfers has become rare as hen's teeth, and belts are tight, I'd doubt a significant sum of cash is expended by the Other 10 toward agents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Let's get something straight, nothing will kill Scottish football. There will be a drop in standards but that drop has been happening since the 70s, we are down to the bare minimum European slots next season anyway, a lot of folk are saying they will walk away from backing the professional system if Rangers are allowed to newco it back to the SPL. The question which needs to be asked is, is it worth taking a drop in standard and working our way back to a level which we should be playing at in order to keep the integrity and sport in our game? or should we try to keep a false standard and teach the next generation that the only way to get ahead in life is to cheat and stamp all over everyone on your way to the top? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makepeace Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 did the guy who writes that leggoland blog ever actually write in a real newspaper? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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