Swampy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Bit harsh. :-( VT is a smug know it all, I clearly don't know it all, hence my questions. The last few pages clearly had die hard nats posting so I thought, why not post? Not expecting anything from anyone other than a bit of a debate. What it's for no? You're right, it was a bit harsh. But you know what I mean. There's debate and then there's just going over old ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Maynard Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Yes, the Queen will remain the head of state of an independent Scotland until the people of Scotland were to decide otherwise. Whichever party is in government may decide to have a referendum on the monarchy in the future, but you just need to look at independent countries such as Australia who still have the Queen as their head of state. It wouldn't be an issue. Ok. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bojangles Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Because this is the mentality of most unionist MPs and MSPs. ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1381341950.425804.jpg ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1381342082.575237.jpg That second one can't be real. Not only is it political suicide, but I had a quick check and can't find it anywhere other than blogs deriding it. First one is true, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Lets turn the question around. What will we do when the oil runs out if we are still in the union? Beg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm entitled to consider those who consider themselves well informed but then can't be bothered to try to win the argument rather smug and self satisfied, and certainly a group I'm glad I'm not a part of. I'm not campaigning on behalf of YesScotland or indeed BitterTogether in any way shape or form. The relevant facts are all easily found on the public domain, using the same means of connection you're currently using to tone-troll this thread. I've made my mind up and if you're too lazy to bother finding basic material (rather than asking, err, an online football forum) then tough. I couldn't give a toss whether you vote yes or no, though it'd probably be better for functioning democracy if you abstained. Bit harsh. :-( VT is a smug know it all, I clearly don't know it all, hence my questions. Erm yes, because we all know that the standard first port of call for a genuinely interested neutral in the matter is a highly polarised football forum. You put your cards on the table with your 'bored' schtick already; stop embarrassing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Maynard Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I think most of the points have been covered, but I also want to mention immigration. England has had a soaring population for years, whereas scotland has just passed 1975 levels. We have different needs and generally, on matters like immigration and the eu, Scotland is generally much more in favour than down south. If we hark back to when Scotlands population was predicted to plummet, I remember even labour asking for special immigration dispensation for Scotland. We were told that one size fits all, and it was only once the snp got to power that there was grudging talk of special dispensation. Not for the good of Scotland, but purely to stop the Fast forward to now, and we have the rise of ukip, immigration caps, dawn raids, marriages being separated, new limits on foreign students, and policy which is just dog whistle racism. Where are ukip up here? Where is the demand for the eu referendum up here? As part of the union, it doesn't matter how we vote. On immigration, we just have to take what we are given. And thats just one reason I think the Union is a bad thing. Fair point re immigration/ ukip. A problem for the Tories in the south east is being played out nationally , with potentially dangerous anti European concequences. I'm pro European so actually this does resonate with me. Por european mind, but not sure the euro is such a good idea for our economy. So we keep the £ but stay in Europe. But then if we keep the pound, our interest rates will be set by the Bank of England. So that's an economic lever that we won't have at our disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Maynard Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm not campaigning on behalf of YesScotland or indeed BitterTogether in any way shape or form. The relevant facts are all easily found on the public domain, using the same means of connection you're currently using to tone-troll this thread. I've made my mind up and if you're too lazy to bother finding basic material (rather than asking, err, an online football forum) then tough. I couldn't give a toss whether you vote yes or no, though it'd probably be better for functioning democracy if you abstained. Erm yes, because we all know that the standard first port of call for a genuinely interested neutral in the matter is a highly polarised football forum. You put your cards on the table with your 'bored' schtick already; stop embarrassing yourself. Most predictable poster on P&B surely? Same shtick every time. I think you would say, swing and a miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Fair point re immigration/ ukip. A problem for the Tories in the south east is being played out nationally , with potentially dangerous anti European concequences. I'm pro European so actually this does resonate with me. Por european mind, but not sure the euro is such a good idea for our economy. So we keep the £ but stay in Europe. But then if we keep the pound, our interest rates will be set by the Bank of England. So that's an economic lever that we won't have at our disposal. Keeping the pound is the best short term solution for both parties. Under inependence with the pound we might not have a say on interest rates but we will be able to alter 100% of our tax base at will. So we'd have those levers. By staying in the union we still have no practical say over how interest rates are set and little control over our tax system. So indy with pound still gives us more control than we do now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Fair point re immigration/ ukip. A problem for the Tories in the south east is being played out nationally , with potentially dangerous anti European concequences. I'm pro European so actually this does resonate with me. Por european mind, but not sure the euro is such a good idea for our economy. So we keep the £ but stay in Europe. But then if we keep the pound, our interest rates will be set by the Bank of England. So that's an economic lever that we won't have at our disposal. We're keeping the pound for at very least the short term. So we're talking a minimum of 5 years. Even if we absolutely wanted to, we couldn't join the Euro. Now, tell me, do we currently have that "lever" at our disposal? No we do not. So in that scenario, absolutely no change. By the way, I have no problem with you asking these questions if they are genuine questions. I know plenty of people that don't pay any attention to politics, and so haven't seen any of the facts. However, you should get informed. Do some reading, do some googling. I've got a busy evening, else I'd talk to you more. But on the subject of this, the McCrone report was mentioned. Have you heard of it? I suggest that before you ask a single question more about oil and the union, you read this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/how-black-gold-was-hijacked-north-sea-oil-and-the-betrayal-of-scotland-518697.html Its from the independent, a London based paper, so not a propaganda source. Once you've read this, then come back and give us your thoughts on oil and the Union before you ask any more questions, thats all I ask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm bored on the train so just to make the journey more interesting a question for all the nats" what's so bad about being in the union?"Think on what will disappear in years to come, in the event of a No vote.Free tuition fees, Free prescriptions, Free personal care for the elderly, Free concessionary travel, Free eye tests, Free bridge tolls, The Council Tax freeze, These are socially acceptable policies that are being implemented by a ruling group with Scotland as its priority. Under Unionism, "nothing is off the table". The Tories have implemented the 'bedroom tax', removal of jobseekers allowance for U-25's & reintroduction of National Service are on the cards. Tuition fees could hit £16k, prescriptions are currently £7.85 per item, eye tests £15 minimum & the majority of Uni's are charging £9k per year fees. Both main Unionist parties have already mooted the assimilation of NHS services within GB & a variety of Unionist politicians are championing the removal of powers/abolition of Holyrood. That a good enough start for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Maynard Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 We're keeping the pound for at very least the short term. So we're talking a minimum of 5 years. Even if we absolutely wanted to, we couldn't join the Euro. Now, tell me, do we currently have that "lever" at our disposal? No we do not. So in that scenario, absolutely no change. By the way, I have no problem with you asking these questions if they are genuine questions. I know plenty of people that don't pay any attention to politics, and so haven't seen any of the facts. However, you should get informed. Do some reading, do some googling.I've got a busy evening, else I'd talk to you more. But on the subject of this, the McCrone report was mentioned. Have you heard of it? I suggest that before you ask a single question more about oil and the union, you read this:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/how-black-gold-was-hijacked-north-sea-oil-and-the-betrayal-of-scotland-518697.htmlIts from the independent, a London based paper, so not a propaganda source. Once you've read this, then come back and give us your thoughts on oil and the Union before you ask any more questions, thats all I ask! Ok, fair play I will do that. My train is just coming up to leuchars, I'm getting of at Dundee, so I'll be signing off soon. I will follow the links as it is the economic stuff that is bothering me. Some good points been made about the immigration issue. Thanks to those who have genuinely replied and made their case. I'm not trolling, but am avoiding doing work, and thought this would be good way of doing that, which it has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thanks to those who have genuinely replied and made their case. I'm not trolling, but am avoiding doing work, and thought this would be good way of doing that, which it has been. No bother. That's the difference between us and the unionists. We answer your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Lets turn the question around. What will we do when the oil runs out if we are still in the union? Beg? Edited.. As never read ure post properly. Good point. We are a great country that will far outperform eng post 2014.. Oil or not Vote Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Vote no, get nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Vote no, get nothing.Correct, plus we will have our limited power stripped away.. As we bow to the south, cap in hand!Lets do it. Vote Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Why the assumption that Reverend Maynard is tone trolling and why the unnecessary aggression towards him? Why not take what he is saying at face value? There are thousands like him who have probably had their views shaped by the mainstream media and haven't yet properly applied thought to the matter. Why shouldn't this thread be his first port of call? This thread initiated my interest in the matter and I've gradually become more informed by reading links on here and on Yes Scotland. People like him who are willing to even ask questions and listen absolutely need to be engaged because there is a worryingly large chunk of the population who appear to be intent on sticking their fingers in their ears and repeating lies in a manner akin to the religious between now and September 2014. The more people who actually engage with sources of information outside the mainstream the better so far as our slim chances of success are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Why the assumption that Reverend Maynard is tone trolling and why the unnecessary aggression towards him? Why not take what he is saying at face value? There are thousands like him who have probably had their views shaped by the mainstream media and haven't yet properly applied thought to the matter. Why shouldn't this thread be his first port of call? This thread initiated my interest in the matter and I've gradually become more informed by reading links on here and on Yes Scotland. I agree. However, I can understand why people are annoyed, because lets face it, we've faced a LOT of people who start out claiming they are neutral and just interested, before being outed as hardcore Unionist trolls. Even DeeGas started out as an interested "neutral". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I will follow the links as it is the economic stuff that is bothering me. Some good points been made about the immigration issue. Thanks to those who have genuinely replied and made their case.The economic case on whether Scotland can stand as an independent nation has already been conceded by the core of Unionists.The point is are you looking at this from a purely selfish viewpoint, or can you see the light down the path for future generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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