Banterous Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Any serious disruption on the markets or in FX would be. Minor movements would always be expected, but they could have calmed the worst of it by admitting that they will negotiate the best deal for everyone. The markets hate uncertainty. Traders love volatility. That's all I am saying. Alex Salmond has alienated everyone including people in the EU by telling lies to Newsnight so negotiations that stall are everyone else's fault are they? Yep and whatever way you cut it, that's down to voting for independence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I totally agree that there are aspects that I want changed but what are we going to do on Friday if the stock markets get hit, the pound devalues and Salmond starts using his "we said it was going to be risky and it'll be a long road" statement as a responsibility deflector on to us. I'm all for doing what's best for the country in the short AND the long term and that's why I'm voting No Well, it'll be better for exports, and market adjustments happen all the time. They'll get over it - you talk about long term and then get nervous about what is the epitome of short term phenomena. Westminster's long term plan, such as it is, is to concentrate as much wealth into a self serving and self perpetuating set of elites in business, politics and the corporate media, to muddle along through a terrifyingly weak democracy, blaming everyone else and making as money as possible. It's a shite state of affairs, and a No vote on Friday is a vote to basically admit you are happy for this to continue in perpetuity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Alex Salmond has alienated everyone including people in the EU by telling lies to Newsnight so negotiations that stall are everyone else's fault are they? Yep and whatever way you cut it, that's down to voting for independence Salmond has stated that the preferred option is to use the pound, via a currency union. The 3 opposition leaders stated that they would not allow this under any circumstances. One side doing far more to feed the uncertainty than the other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Well, it'll be better for exports, and market adjustments happen all the time. They'll get over it - you talk about long term and then get nervous about what is the epitome of short term phenomena. Westminster's long term plan, such as it is, is to concentrate as much wealth into a self serving and self perpetuating set of elites in business, politics and the corporate media, to muddle along through a terrifyingly weak democracy, blaming everyone else and making as money as possible. It's a shite state of affairs, and a No vote on Friday is a vote to basically admit you are happy for this to continue in perpetuity. Market adjustments happen every day but not dramatic falls like 2008 which was a global recession. Stocks right themselves over the long term but how long is that in this case? 5 years at least for European Union entry and the currency question has not been resolved yet. I repeat my last point about Salmond using the "risks and a long road statement" That might be for most of the World although it could be worse off and under a government with a leader who seems to be good at intimidiation and whipping up internal fervour that will get a lot worse. Salmond seems to lack diplomacy; wouldn't you agree? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) I think there are going to be a growing number after this which I think will be a narrow No victory. Politicians are all self serving and we make our decisions based on what's best for us. None of them have offered anything that's good but at least we know where we are by staying put and not exposing ourselves to a risky and badly mapped out clusterfuck. I think Salmond has been a very good opportunist at exploiting a general mood but this nationalist fervour will die down soon..........hopefully Well look at that Politicians thread on the forum and the film of people screaming at Jim Murphy and that's just the media. If you voice an opinion in the street, and Yes campaigners are around it turns into a row. The evidence is there mate in spades and the fact that you won't see it is you obviating your responsibility as a advocate of people's right to disagree with you. No one should be harassed for their views if they don't threaten others Jim Murphy had a loud hailer and was screaming at passers by. Are they not allowed to shout back? And the evidence isn't there pal. Edited September 17, 2014 by Blaven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I agree but there's a direction from the top of "Yes" to "ignore" and accuse the World of being "against them". That sets up a very dangerous mindset. It's like some of our fans who believe that when they lose a game it's not "our fault" or the fact that the other side played well. It's because there's a conspiracy and that creates a vociferous minority. At CP for example, you can't even say that you haven't voted yet because that implies you might vote No. I think the mainstream media only reporting one side is the longer term danger for our democracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Salmond has stated that the preferred option is to use the pound, via a currency union. The 3 opposition leaders stated that they would not allow this under any circumstances. One side doing far more to feed the uncertainty than the other. Salmond has encouraged distrust of WM and yet he trusts them with his life over currency. Which side is sending mixed messages? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Market adjustments happen every day but not dramatic falls like 2008 which was a global recession. Stocks right themselves over the long term but how long is that in this case? 5 years at least for European Union entry and the currency question has not been resolved yet. I repeat my last point about Salmond using the "risks and a long road statement" That might be for most of the World although it could be worse off and under a government with a leader who seems to be good at intimidiation and whipping up internal fervour that will get a lot worse. Salmond seems to lack diplomacy; wouldn't you agree? You think little ol' Scotland is going ot trigger another recession? And it won't be 5 years to get into the EU, regardless of what one Spanish minister said. The currency question is resolved, it'll be Sterling, either with or without the CU. How the rUK would choose on that issue would be the matter of negotiations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Pollster Peter Kellner from Yougov: am I absolutely sure that no is slightly ahead? "No I'm not" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I think the mainstream media only reporting one side is the longer term danger for our democracy. The "scaremongering" or the "bias"? Ludicrous stuff mate. They report the news and that's that. Salmond is afraid that people might listen as more than half the country half. Tough luck 'eck 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassiveFanDan Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I agree but there's a direction from the top of "Yes" to "ignore" and accuse the World of being "against them". That sets up a very dangerous mindset. Yet 100% of the actual violence during this campaign, minimal though it was, has come from the No side... The 80-year Yes campaigner who had his wrist broken on the Royal Mile, the woman kicked by an ex-BNP thug during his pro-Union crate-top speech, the SNP MSP attacked in a pub, the very minor attack on the Yes stall outside Tynecastle, etc. Ach, why am I even talking to you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Salmond has encouraged distrust of WM and yet he trusts them with his life over currency. Which side is sending mixed messages? He doesn't, he merely trusts in them being able to make rational decisions that will benefit them in the long term. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Salmond has encouraged distrust of WM and yet he trusts them with his life over currency. Which side is sending mixed messages? Both sides are sending mixed messages about a lot of things, but only one side has sent messages that would be massively detrimental to the value of sterling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 You think little ol' Scotland is going ot trigger another recession? And it won't be 5 years to get into the EU, regardless of what one Spanish minister said. The currency question is resolved, it'll be Sterling, either with or without the CU. How the rUK would choose on that issue would be the matter of negotiations. Who do you think these will benefit considering they make the decisions? Salmond's "plan" involves a lot of people agreeing with him and benefiting Scotland. That really scares me and it should scare everyone else. He only cares about his party and their power which is secured for as long as negotiations last. Yep. Stretching these out suit the SNP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The "scaremongering" or the "bias"? Ludicrous stuff mate. They report the news and that's that. Salmond is afraid that people might listen as more than half the country half. Tough luck 'eck The woman kicked in the stomach? "An incident between Yes and No supporters". The guy attacked in Edinburgh the other night for being pro yes? "An incident outside a Pro Yes concert" Jim Murphy egged? Well, I don't really need to add all the headlines from that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) If you count arrogant trolls like that H_B character then yes, but you can't base your opinion on the extremist views. As I say, if you were to walk the street, or chat in bars, nobody is predicting a 10% point gap. Many may suggest a No victory, but a slight one. The only people predicting huge gaps are those outside of Scotland, or (bless him) Tommy Sheridan - although obviously in the other direction. You still haven't answered my question, where am I going wrong in my reasoning? I'm clearly not coming to the conclusion of a ~55 No win off the back of singular folks opinions on forums. Edited September 17, 2014 by banana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The woman kicked in the stomach? "An incident between Yes and No supporters". The guy attacked in Edinburgh the other night for being pro yes? "An incident outside a Pro Yes concert" Jim Murphy egged? Well, I don't really need to add all the headlines from that. So what you're saying is that you know of incidents that haven't made the news? Ditto mate. Plenty of shopowners being threatened, physical and verbal assaults etc etc etc. Most of it is coming from Yes and that comes from further up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Friday Night Armistice "Election Special" with Armando Iannucci. They did an exit poll on one polling booth. Some old biddy said she voted Conservative, therefore the predicted outcome was a 650 Conservative majority. Total hilarity, I've been looking for this video for years! Quality satire, swingometers and all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Who do you think these will benefit considering they make the decisions? Salmond's "plan" involves a lot of people agreeing with him and benefiting Scotland. That really scares me and it should scare everyone else. He only cares about his party and their power which is secured for as long as negotiations last. Yep. Stretching these out suit the SNP This is getting bloody circular. I can only assume you start from a place where Scotland contributes nothing and that we are dependent upon the goodwill of everyone else. There are a number of points on which the rUK assuming successor status as the clearly would want to do, leaves them exposed financially, unless Scotland was willing to play ball - for example, liabilities. Time tables for Trident removal would be another (something the Americans would be looking at carefully as well). Ultimately, Scotland would give up somethings, like majority control of it's own monetary policies, but the rUK would potentially be digging a huge hole for itself, should it wish to play hardball over a CU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 So what you're saying is that you know of incidents that haven't made the news? Ditto mate. Plenty of shopowners being threatened, physical and verbal assaults etc etc etc. Most of it is coming from Yes and that comes from further up Further up what? Where's your evidence, these threats and assualts would have made the local press, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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