All things Dundee FC

[harry94]

2 minutes ago, Caballero said:

I've never taken anything Harry says seriously. Gives you in depth alleged knowledge about lower league players etc. How would he know, Dundee play at the same time as these teams. Whopper IMO

Damn intellectualism and fact learning. Statistics about lower league players are the work of the devil.

[RandomGuy.]

The names being bandied about are delicious, we're not far away from Terry Butcher.

[Ludo*1]

10 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Jim Duffy has managed a full-time team in a mostly part-time league and won promotion. In the following season, he has consolidated and stayed up ahead of the part time sides in the league. That was a good achievement but it wasn't really entirely unexpected for a club like Morton.

This year, he's achieved a League Cup semi final and beaten one top flight club in the process. That was good also and reaching the semi-final of the cup is something that he should be proud of but it's not really something that persuades me of anything tbh. He's had a long managerial career and I like the guy but I'm not entirely convinced that he's done anything worthy of a top flight appointment again. He's not exactly got a good record with relegation and the club!

Adkins is just a thought and I don't know how obtainable it would be but his last two jobs were under complex ownership and unlucky timing that never really gave him the tools to do the job. I don't know a lot about him but my motivation for mentioning him was that he always impressed me in interviews and he did undoubtedly have a part to play in the careers of many top Premiership players these days. Having managed/played in Scotland isn't really a necessity to me if they could demonstrate that they have a good football understanding and the humility to surround themselves with someone to fill those gaps.

I would definitely be doing a proper interview process and inviting managers from down south to apply. There will likely be a lot of Jim Gannon applications but there could be an interesting name or two pop up.

I think you're being completely disingenuous to Duffy's achievements at Morton quite frankly.

I also don't believe you're foolish enough to ignore the 'complex ownership and unlucky timing' that has plagued Duffy's career (The majority of which whilst at Dundee) and then use it as your point to back up your ridiculous suggestion of Adkins.

I agree on your last point though as the likes of Alan Stubbs and John Hughes being genuinely in contention frightens me massively. It makes me wish we'd give Hartley another 3 year deal.

[RandomGuy.]

12 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

He beat two top flight sides to get to the semi final.

Were you lot not all moaning like f**k about him last season? Remember in our cup thread everyone greeting about him playing players out of position.

[Louis Litt]

They were moaning like f**k about him until about 4 games ago. If Hartley does eventually leave us then I'd I'm sure that we wouldn't fall short of applicants, the thought of folk actually wanting us to pay a fee to bring in Jim Duffy bemuses me

[Ira Gaines]

Were you lot not all moaning like f**k about him last season? Remember in our cup thread everyone greeting about him playing players out of position.

He's turned around a horrible start both seasons.

As for the latter point it is a problem, and a move up the ladder could expose that problem badly. But where we are, it continues to be enough to keep us comfy and it'd be a shame to see him go if it happened.

[BoobyMann]

Just heard from someone ITK that Hartley will get his jotters if we do not beat Patrick on Wednesday.

Should be axed now IMO.

[harry94]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

I think you're being completely disingenuous to Duffy's achievements at Morton quite frankly.

I also don't believe you're foolish enough to ignore the 'complex ownership and unlucky timing' that has plagued Duffy's career (The majority of which whilst at Dundee) and then use it as your point to back up your ridiculous suggestion of Adkins.

I agree on your last point though as the likes of Alan Stubbs and John Hughes being genuinely in contention frightens me massively. It makes me wish we'd give Hartley another 3 year deal.

I do give Duffy leeway for what happened before. I don't think he was entirely responsible for what happened but he did play a part in it (like Adkins would have in his poor form). Adkins was just a silly thing that entered my head and a name I come out with (let's be honest, a new manager process will just be a few weeks of us deluding ourselves with different names before having to settle with Hughes!) and I wasn't meaning to bring it into Adkins V Duffy.

I would praise Jim Duffy's achievements at Morton and I respect that he's a good few years wiser since last time around but I just don't hold those achievements as impressive enough alone to bring him into serious consideration for a job like would be on offer now. He's demonstrated that he is a decent manager in the second tier but there have been hundreds who have been considered decent at that level but have seen their career falter when they've stepped up. There is a certain non definable attribute about picking a new manager where feeling comes into it and that works against him in my opinion although I understand the opposing view.

My worry with Duffy would be that he kind of has some baggage with fans already. If he hits a bad run, I feel the calls for him to be axed will come instantly and the pressure will build a bit higher than it would on someone with a different sort of association with the club. Rightly or wrongly (ignoring the considerations we've given about the circumstance he was in), people consider him a managerial failure at Dundee.

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, harry94 said:

I do give Duffy leeway for what happened before. I don't think he was entirely responsible for what happened but he did play a part in it (like Adkins would have in his poor form). Adkins was just a silly thing that entered my head and a name I come out with (let's be honest, a new manager process will just be a few weeks of us deluding ourselves with different names before having to settle with Hughes!) and I wasn't meaning to bring it into Adkins V Duffy.

I would praise Jim Duffy's achievements at Morton and I respect that he's a good few years wiser since last time around but I just don't hold those achievements as impressive enough alone to bring him into serious consideration for a job like would be on offer now. He's demonstrated that he is a decent manager in the second tier but there have been hundreds who have been considered decent at that level but have seen their career falter when they've stepped up. There is a certain non definable attribute about picking a new manager where feeling comes into it and that works against him in my opinion although I understand the opposing view.

My worry with Duffy would be that he kind of has some baggage with fans already. If he hits a bad run, I feel the calls for him to be axed will come instantly and the pressure will build a bit higher than it would on someone with a different sort of association with the club. Rightly or wrongly (ignoring the considerations we've given about the circumstance he was in), people consider him a managerial failure at Dundee.

I can't argue with much of that.

Duffy would be my first choice out of the names mentioned so far, unless we could tempt someone like Wright which is probably fanciful.

As I've said on Hartley, my first choice is to actually keep him, I don't think there's many better managers that would be willing to join us. He's undoubtedly a good manager that looks to have made an arse of this season. A win on Wednesday and thinks can be looking ever so slightly more positive. I won't deny that my outburst today has largely been based on our performance today, but it had all the hallmarks of a team that was done.

[Daydream]

[Ludo*1]

3 minutes ago, Daydream said:

 

We have at least another 14 months till the return of Jocky.

He was born in 48, he played for us in 68 and 78, managed us in 88, 98 and 08.

Tis fate.

[Daydream]

Lose our next 2 and pep is gone. I think we're doomed tbh. Slow going forward, our front men can't hold it up, no one can beat a mean or create anything, we're only comfortable stroking it sideways in the deep, too many guys are treating the ball like a hot potato, and we're not converting the chances we somehow create. Basically, we're shite and I'd be astounded if a new manager can get this squad competitive.

[AnAnInginAneAnA]

3 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

 

We have at least another 14 months till the return of Jocky.

He was born in 48, he played for us in 68 and 78, managed us in 88, 98 and 08.

Tis f8.

FTFY.

[dundeefc1783]

I agree on your last point though as the likes of Alan Stubbs and John Hughes being genuinely in contention frightens me massively. It makes me wish we'd give Hartley another 3 year deal.

So let's get this right, the thought of employing a manager in John Hughes who has a better win % than our current manager, has guided his last club to a top 5 and top 3 finish as well as winning a Scottish cup terrifies you enough to offer a man who is clearly struggling to pick, organise and motivate a team and is currently rock bottom with 5 defeats in a row and no wins in 9 a new 3 year deal.

And what's more laughable is your first choice should Hartley go is a man who hasn't managed in the top flight for over 10 years and has a proven track record of getting sides relegated from the premier league.

The thought of Jim Duffy frightens me a hell of a lot more than the thought of John Hughes.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, dundeefc1783 said:

 

So let's get this right, the thought of employing a manager in John Hughes who has a better win % than our current manager, has guided his last club to a top 5 and top 3 finish as well as winning a Scottish cup terrifies you enough to offer a man who is clearly struggling to pick, organise and motivate a team and is currently rock bottom with 5 defeats in a row and no wins in 9 a new 3 year deal.

And what's more laughable is your first choice should Hartley go is a man who hasn't managed in the top flight for over 10 years and has a proven track record of getting sides relegated from the premier league.

The thought of Jim Duffy frightens me a hell of a lot more than the thought of John Hughes.



 

 

Duffy has a Dundee connection though, so obviously Ludo loves him, hes not far away from talking about how the manager has to "understand the club" and be "Dundee minded"

[Ludo*1]

3 minutes ago, dundeefc1783 said:

 

 

So let's get this right, the thought of employing a manager in John Hughes who has a better win % than our current manager, has guided his last club to a top 5 and top 3 finish as well as winning a Scottish cup terrifies you enough to offer a man who is clearly struggling to pick, organise and motivate a team and is currently rock bottom with 5 defeats in a row and no wins in 9 a new 3 year deal.

And what's more laughable is your first choice should Hartley go is a man who hasn't managed in the top flight for over 10 years and has a proven track record of getting sides relegated from the premier league.

The thought of Jim Duffy frightens me a hell of a lot more than the thought of John Hughes.



 

 

 

Yes, I believe John Hughes to be an utter simpleton and he treated his last club with complete disrespect. Whoring himself out to anyone that'd listen, creating a toxic atmosphere at pretty much the majority of the club's he's been at.

My statement about Hartley was clearly tongue in cheek but I don't see Hughes as a step up by any stretch.

[Spikethedee]

We have no creativity in midfield, long punts up the park or misplaced passes are the order of the day when we get the ball going forward. Williams, Ross, Vincent, Low, McGowan, Hateley and Duffy appear to be our midfield options (assuming O'Hara gets a game when fit, which he should) and I don't see much out of that lot at the moment. Would a new manager be able to get more out of them, or play them in a better formation, before the window opens and we can sign more players? 

If you think the answer to that is a definite "yes", then failure on Wednesday should result in a new manager. I personally can't see that being the case at the moment...

[Fifespud]

Like you Ludo I think Hughes is as thick as mince. However my fondness for Hartley and dislike for Hughes doesn't stand up to statistical analysis.
Duffy is no for me.
Here's a name that won't have any support whatsoever. Who did very well in the SPL and who's team went in to free fall after he left. Subsequently he has done an admirable job in the Championship and came within 1 game of getting his team promoted?

[Kyle]

I'm not convinced Houston would leave Falkirk at the moment. Not long since he got a new deal and every seems to work for him there. 

I suppose it depends whether he thinks that Dundee side can be improved with what you've currently got at your disposal. Still a long time until January and I doubt your board will sign out of contract superstars in the meantime like united did.

[Nadroj]

Houston says he won't manage another team. He's going to retire with Falkirk.