All things Dundee FC

[dundeefc1783]

when was the last time you thought Hartley outwitted another manager or pulled off a tactical switch mid game that turned it in our favour?

Cant think of a single occasion

[D TOTAL]

 

Were you moaning when he won us the league? 

Were you moaning when he had us in the top 6?

Evening finishing 8th wasnt so bad, what more were you expecting?

We are where we are now because this season alone things havnt worked out for him. Players have no fight and too many things seem to be going on in the background also. 

 

It's exactly because of last season that mine and every other dee is expecting to be kicking on and not sitting at the foot of the table

Don't get me wrong I'm not calling for Hartley out(yet) just I don't think his transfer gambles are very good considering every other team in the spl/championship can spot talent we always seem to get the dregs

[srw]

Its time people realise this isnt a blip, our form throughout 2016 has been dire, I genuinely believe that Utds demise has led to DFC fans overlooking just how poor we were the second half of last season. We have been going backwards for quite some time. 

Even with Harkins, Hemmings and Stewart we struggled to win games, no one would expect the replacements to be as good/effective, but they have been simply awful.

[D TOTAL]

Maybe to do with our scouting?

What youngsters do we have coming through? 

Every month or so I see on here we've signed x from y youth team to play in what Hartley describes as a pointless development league we never seem to send the younins out on loan

[Louis Litt]

19 minutes ago, srw said:

Its time people realise this isnt a blip, our form throughout 2016 has been dire, I genuinely believe that Utds demise has led to DFC fans overlooking just how poor we were the second half of last season. We have been going backwards for quite some time. 

You'd struggle to argue with this. I want Hartley to succeed and hope we turn things around but up until lately there's definitely been an attitude of get a grip guys, it's not terrible by any means, look across the road and get some perspective. The matter of fact is that we seriously underachieved by finishing 8th last season, but a lot of folk looked past it because of relegation Monday. 

 

[RandomGuy.]

Im fairly sure Dundee have only won eight games in the league this calendar year, and two were against United.

[srw]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Im fairly sure Dundee have only won eight games in the league this calendar year, and two were against United.

7 wins out of 28 league games this year I think

[Louis Litt]

5 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

 

2 years up in the top league and you expected to finish higher than 8th?

 

8th would usually be a more than adequate league position. With the form that Hemmings and Stewart were in, we undoubtedly should've finished higher though. 

[Fifespud]

It's very different though. 3 of the successes that haven't played at this level again who I think you are referring to are: Konrad - Playing at an equivalent level in the Swiss top flight; Harkins - key player for two seasons and contributed to a very good attack; Clarkson - ^^ . I don't see it as being spurious to note that other players played at a lower level in that time. They played for us and contributed then moved on - others were mostly playing part time football.

I think it's pretty harsh to apply a development signing like Carreiro to things. Healey and Calder were cheap short term loans and Healey actually broke through to the first 11 but was unlucky and took a nasty injury when he started to look useful. If you're going to put them down to being poor - every single manager in the league makes those sorts of signings all the time.

Ross was hailed as a very good signing after January last year and come onto a game quite a bit (I get the opposite opinion but I'd say he's our most under rated player tbh - think he'd be useful if we gave him a run in a proper role instead of the magical mystery system). I would also say it's a bit harsh putting Heffernan in there when he was signed as a stop gap for 6 months and was only really expected to complement other players (and I'd say he did as we did well in a few games with him leading the line) while we worked on signing someone better in the summer (i.e. Hemmings).

Not every player who doesn't become Bain, Stewart or Hemmings is a failure.

Look I get all that but by the same token claiming a guy like Clarkson was a success, when in fact he was finished and went on a flukey scoring run is a bit disingenuous too, much as it was appreciated. As for the loan signings, a club like ours should be bringing in loan players who can contribute to the first team, not guy's we are merely contributing to the wages of, and they are simply making up the numbers.
In Hartley's tenure we are yet to put out, in one single game, what I would describe as a 'solid' defence. We have played an uncountable number of permutations of midfielders, to all of which the expression 'completely devoid of width' is the only description that can applied universally.
We should be progressing and I'm not talking about league position, but there should be green shoots appearing. We are handing out 3 year contracts, previously everybody was on 12 month deals. The 3 year guys should be players that, barring injury, are good enough that their ability demands they're in our team week in, week out.
I just don't see a coherent plan, a system. You need a platform of stability to which you add gems of quality (for example Brian Easton to St Johnstone), we don't have that.
I wouldn't punt Hartley for one of the other usual suspects and outstanding young candidates are thin on the ground but something ain't working at Dens and hasn't been for some considerable time.

[Dindeleux]

Dindeleux is basically the Kilmarnock version of Kincardine.

"diddy diddy lol"

Been analysing my posts again Randy?

[Ludo*1]

I think Hartley was shafted slightly. He seemed absolutely convinced that Hemmings and Stewart were staying at one point and when we did sell Hemmings, he claimed he knew nothing about the release clause and Nelms backed Hartley on that in the media.

In regards to Stewart, whilst Hartley might have tried to prepare on him leaving, he probably didn't anticipate that he'd leave so late in the window thus us having an extremely limited time span to get someone in and having probably already missed out on targets. Then he was in a position where he needed some of that cash reinvested and we put in a tame bid for Mallan that was always gonna be rejected and didn't really follow it up.

We are gonna have to get used to shitfesting it this year and if Hartley does get us through this tough patch I've no doubts he'll make amends. However, he is fast running out of goodwill.

The Haber signing strikes me as a stopgap in the same way Clarkson and Heffernan were in our first season up. A guy to do a job because we missed out on our targets. A guy that'll tide us over as we prepare an assault on getting in quality players/get some time to develop El Bahk or dare I say it - Yordi.

We are in a desperate situation and in today's online Courier I think for the first time, Hartley realises this.

[Shadow Play]

9 minutes ago, Louis Litt said:

8th would usually be a more than adequate league position. With the form that Hemmings and Stewart were in, we undoubtedly should've finished higher though. 

Valid point, well made.

[Alert Mongoose]

Who gives a f**k? We need  Hartley to sort things now!. f**k all we can do about the past. Present is all that matters and right now we are bottom of the league where we deserve to be.

[Fifespud]

Scoring 9 games in a row is flukey?

I would say, considering how rarely it happens by any player in any senior league in the world, that's the only word to describe it. Why did we not keep him for another season?

[Dundee-FC92]

We're through our toughest run of fixtures during the season.

Time for Hartley to kick us on. He has until Ross County at home in December until i call for his skull on a platter.

Thank you.

[rainbowrising]

37 minutes ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

We're through our toughest run of fixtures during the season.

Time for Hartley to kick us on. He has until Ross County at home in December until i call for his skull on a platter.

Thank you.

if by toughest run you mean we are one game from completing the first round of matches against all 11 opponents with a total of 6 points I'm not sure what we are kicking on from.

[Aufc]

Scoring 9 games in a row is flukey?

Mind dundee fans were touting him for a scotland call up off the back of this

[dd23]

We're through our toughest run of fixtures during the season.

Time for Hartley to kick us on. He has until Ross County at home in December until i call for his skull on a platter.

Thank you.

Wednesday evening will decide whether the start to the season can be viewed as poor or disastrous. Hope it's the former.
Not sure about our toughest fixtures being behind us though, in the next 11 we travel to Parkhead, Ibrox, Pittodrie, N Douglas Park, Rugby Park and Firhill, on paper a much tougher round than the first 11.

[Dundee-FC92]

2 minutes ago, dd23 said:

 

Wednesday evening will decide whether the start to the season can be viewed as poor or disastrous. Hope it's the former.
Not sure about our toughest fixtures being behind us though, in the next 11 we travel to Parkhead, Ibrox, Pittodrie, N Douglas Park, Rugby Park and Firhill, on paper a much tougher round than the first 11.

 

We won't go on another 5 consecutive games of defeat before the end of the season. 

Aberdeen, Celtic, InvenessA, HeartsA then St JohnstoneA is as tough fixtures as you get in this league. The run up to Christmas is pretty decent, and i suspect we'll rise from the bottom soon, especially with Kilmarnock's upcoming fixtures.

If we're still in this position after the County match at home then we're fucked.

[dd23]

Hope you're right. Also hope the run ends at 5.