H_B Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I meant earlier than that. Ah right. Well if you can find the earlier thread I was still saying 53/47 . I'm happy to admit I called it horribly wrong. I gave the Yes side far too much credit and thought it would actually be a contest with a close-ish result. I didn't foresee the mauling and didn't expect such a high turnout of voters queuing up to say GTF to the Yes campaign. Still you live and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I think the point was that there was no specifics in the vow which makes it easy to change or water down. Given the history of nearly all governments you can't be surprised that people are sceptical of what will actually be delivered. After all it's the politician mantra- keep it vague then you don't have to lie. That is a good and accurate general point; but specifically are the SNP going to hold to account based on their pre referendum position of meaningless with no new powers, their post referendum position of promised significant powers, the Smith Commission outcome which they signed, or their position hours later that they didn't support it? That would seem pretty vague to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 yyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn They say imitation is the highest form of flattery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 That is a good and accurate general point; but specifically are the SNP going to hold to account based on their pre referendum position of meaningless with no new powers, their post referendum position of promised significant powers, the Smith Commission outcome which they signed, or their position hours later that they didn't support it? That would seem pretty vague to me. It's not that complicated to anybody with an ounce of common sense. The SNP support the devolution of any and all powers so they signed up to the Smith Commission. However, they also believe that the Smith Commission does not go far enough and does nothing to address any of the current issues with the constitutional setup. If you don't get that then you're an idiot or more likely a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Smith is incoherent. Its another halfway house. It has solved nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 It's not that complicated to anybody with an ounce of common sense. The SNP support the devolution of any and all powers so they signed up to the Smith Commission. However, they also believe that the Smith Commission does not go far enough and does nothing to address any of the current issues with the constitutional setup. If you don't get that then you're an idiot or more likely a troll. If the SNP did not think it went far enough, they should have walked away, but they did not and it was signed off, there is no Smith Commission 2 on the horizon, so what is in the report is it, just a thought Smith is incoherent. Its another halfway house. It has solved nothing. If this is true it makes Swinney incompetent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabinoban Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 The Vow and the Smith Commission have just been one enormous stitch up. All show with very little substance. A huge exercise in connivance, deceit, manipulation and spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I can't understand what you two are struggling to grasp here. It's quite simple. The SNP want ALL powers devolved. If you offer 3 powers out of 20 they'll take them and press for the other 17. You then give them another 6 and they'll be pressing for the remaining 11. Rinse and repear until all powers are devolved. Each round of powers transfer will be backed up by huge SNP gains in elections. Whilst the SNP maintain the overwhelming popular vote independence by stealth is an inevitability. Labour and Tories simply have to hope they can do something to halt the SNP. In the meantime Englandshire is waking up to all this power transferring and is growing increasingly angry about it. The UK is dead. 10 years, 20 years, whatever. It's deader than a dead thing which has recently become deceased. Strange thing considering you apparently won the vote. Very strange indeed. You No guys must be utterly befuddled by all this. Just you keep feeding this to the sheep, they lap this up, but the rest of us know the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Just you keep feeding this to the sheep, they lap this up, but the rest of us know the truth What is "the truth" Be Specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 What is "the truth" Be Specific the truth that the SNP delegation at the commission was incompetent, Swinney only had one job, that was to get a good deal for the SNP, and he failed, you only had to hear his boss barely minutes after the report had been published, had a face on her like a bulldog chewing a wasp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I can't understand what you two are struggling to grasp here. It's quite simple. The SNP want ALL powers devolved. If you offer 3 powers out of 20 they'll take them and press for the other 17. You then give them another 6 and they'll be pressing for the remaining 11. Rinse and repear until all powers are devolved. Each round of powers transfer will be backed up by huge SNP gains in elections. Whilst the SNP maintain the overwhelming popular vote independence by stealth is an inevitability. Labour and Tories simply have to hope they can do something to halt the SNP. In the meantime Englandshire is waking up to all this power transferring and is growing increasingly angry about it. The UK is dead. 10 years, 20 years, whatever. It's deader than a dead thing which has recently become deceased. Strange thing considering you apparently won the vote. Very strange indeed. You No guys must be utterly befuddled by all this. No more befuddled than they were before all this, which alas, is why we lost the referendum. Stupid does what stupid is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 the truth that the SNP delegation at the commission was incompetent, Swinney only had one job, that was to get a good deal for the SNP, and he failed, you only had to hear his boss barely minutes after the report had been published, had a face on her like a bulldog chewing a wasp How do you think 2 delegates at the commission are ever going to triumph against all the others? If you think the SNP delegates could have had any influence over the final paper then you are a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 How do you think 2 delegates at the commission are ever going to triumph against all the others? If you think the SNP delegates could have had any influence over the final paper then you are a fool. ecto a fool? fk me, I never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 How do you think 2 delegates at the commission are ever going to triumph against all the others? If you think the SNP delegates could have had any influence over the final paper then you are a fool. thanks for making my point for me, if that was the case they should have withdrawn, hold on the Greens would have been on the same side as the SNP, so 4 against 6 seems it would be a little fairer, but still they got in the view of The SNP a bad deal, but if you just want to take the "cry baby" line, that we could not win as there was more of them, oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Yes, because 4 is a bigger number than 6 in the wonderful world of Ecto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Yes, because 4 is a bigger number than 6 in the wonderful world of Ecto. always knew you did not read so well, because at no point did I remotely say what you are suggesting, but there you go, next you will be telling me that The Smith Commission is the road to independence in bite size chunks, really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 No, the smith commission is a waste of time and merely a crumb throwing exercise (as was Calman before it). The SNP might as well pick up these crumbs while they have the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 No, the smith commission is a waste of time and merely a crumb throwing exercise (as was Calman before it). The SNP might as well pick up these crumbs while they have the chance. The SNP claimed to want a currency union with the rUK. I'd question how different things would be in that scenario on varying things like VAT and corporation tax. The big difference is who gets control over licensing and taxing offshore oil and gas and that's where the Smith Commission falls way short of Devomax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabinoban Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 The SNP claimed to want a currency union with the rUK. I'd question how different things would be in that scenario on varying things like VAT and corporation tax. The big difference is who gets control over licensing and taxing offshore oil and gas and that's where the Smith Commission falls way short of Devomax. DevoMax, or 'nothing less than a modern form of Scottish Home Rule' is closer by a few footsteps out of a marathon. And also it matters not one jot if the Vow changed no one's vote. The fact is they made these pledges then completely copped out. Basically they promised the earth and are now giving the absolute bare minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 thanks for making my point for me, if that was the case they should have withdrawn, If the SNP had withdrawn the unionists and the papers would have had a field day. You seem unable to grasp the simplest elements of Scottish politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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