The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[Dunning1874]

We last finished in the top 16 of Scottish football seven years ago, which is one of only two times we've done so in the last 25 seasons, or five times in 36 seasons. We last finished in the top 12 in 1988/89 and that was one of the worst relegations the top flight has ever seen, though not quite as bad as our previous relegation in 1984/85 which was the last time we finished in the top 10.

In light of these facts, have you considered that accusing the club of lacking ambition in announcing a plan to consolidate in the top 16 of Scottish football is absolutely fucking mental?

If a club who haven't been in top flight for 35 years, who incidentally are fan owned and have the lowest budget in the Championship which probably puts them about 25th in Scotland overall in terms of budget, came out and said they had a plan to consolidate as a top 10 club in Scotland, never drop below that level and ultimately stay in the top division as long as Motherwell have they would quite rightly be considered an absolute laughing stock whose plans are delusional. It would be as bad as League One Falkirk firing out statements talking about their rightful place in the top division, simply irredeemably mad shit.

None of this means that in the event we get ahead and win promotion in the next couple of seasons everyone at the club would be happy to do a Brechin, sitting back and accepting automatic relegation because fourth in the Championship is the peak of our ambition and just being in the top flight is an achievement. We would build a squad to push on and might manage it if we had a good manager, as clubs with smaller fanbases than us have.

Setting up realistic steps to get there by improving the club's infrastucture and growing the fanbase makes that success in future more likely, it doesn't show a lack of ambition that we're happy to rest on our laurels as a playoff challenging club in perpetuity. It shows that they have a realistic approach of how much can be achieved in a small timescale, rather than doing some ridiculous foreign owner shite and making wild promises about how we're going to be the third force in Scottish football.

I think what's been shared with fans of the plan is a bit light on detail with too much management speak, but it's understandable as I wouldn't expect us to see all the detail of what they're going to do behind the scenes. That they've made a plan at all is a change from the previous 25 years of amateurish shite from the boardroom, and openly attaching a realistic target to a timescale means they're ready to be held to account on it when we see over the coming years whether they meet the targets they've set themselves.

[DreamOakTree1]

2 hours ago, Mr.Blue said:

So you want us to publicly state that we are targeting 1st place in Scottish football which is entirely unrealistic. The plan is ambitious and achievable which is what it should be. From there if we achieve these targets then we re-evaluate and set new targets. 

No I didn't mean we should be targetting first place in Scotland, that was just an example of how I feel an ambitious mindset can push you to a better place than you might otherwise achieve. The plan is achievable as you say, but cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called ambitious. I just feel that our 3 year plan should target top 12 as an absolute minimum. Anything less is setting the bar so low it would hardly make you want to get out of bed in the morning.

Edited February 27 by DreamOakTree1

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

No I didn't mean we should be targetting first place in Scotland, that was just an example of how I feel an ambitious mindset can push you to a better place than you might otherwise achieve. 

What you feel and objective evidence of sound business strategy - in football or any other sector - are two completely different things. 

[DreamOakTree1]

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

What you feel and objective evidence of sound business strategy - in football or any other sector - are two completely different things. 

I get exactly what you’re saying VT, but I’m preaching what I’ve always practised in my own career. My initial ambition in school was to be a Ship Drafrsperson, then Project Engineer, Project Manager and ultimately Head of Projects.
I can tell you I only achieved those goals by setting high targets and striving to achieve them, safe in the knowledge that my competitors were only human beings with similar targets as myself. That’s the only possible way I could’ve done it.
I can see a similar determination in Dougie Imrie and our current squad, that convinces me into believing we should be setting the bar as high as possible within the resources at our disposal. 

When Alex Ferguson took over Aberdeen, people questioned his sanity when he said he ‘d conquer the Old Firm. You guys need to realise that daring to dream means daring to succeed.

[Mon eh Ton]

But you obviously stopped short of becoming a billionaire CEO of a global shipping monopoly because your ambition was appropriate with respect to the things you can, and cannot, feasibly control.

[ClydeTon]

28 minutes ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

I get exactly what you’re saying VT, but I’m preaching what I’ve always practised in my own career. My initial ambition in school was to be a Ship Drafrsperson, then Project Engineer, Project Manager and ultimately Head of Projects.
I can tell you I only achieved those goals by setting high targets and striving to achieve them, safe in the knowledge that my competitors were only human beings with similar targets as myself. That’s the only possible way I could’ve done it.
I can see a similar determination in Dougie Imrie and our current squad, that convinces me into believing we should be setting the bar as high as possible within the resources at our disposal. 

When Alex Ferguson took over Aberdeen, people questioned his sanity when he said he ‘d conquer the Old Firm. You guys need to realise that daring to dream means daring to succeed.

I dream that you'd just shut it and give us all peace.

Alas, here we are.

[DreamOakTree1]

12 minutes ago, Mon eh Ton said:

But you obviously stopped short of becoming a billionaire CEO of a global shipping monopoly because your ambition was appropriate with respect to the things you can, and cannot, feasibly control.

100% correct.

You deal with the cards you’ve been dealt with and go as far as you possibly can with the resources at your disposal.
I always said it was my Project Teams that succeeded s and made me look good, and they loved going for the goals I’d set them. 
For some reason I was always given the team members no-one else wanted, and I said I’ll take them as I knew if you gave them a target and trusted them with it then they’re deliver every time.

It’s not rocket science, it’s knowing how to manage and motivate human beings, whilst your competitors are only doing the same thing.! You just need to do it better than they do.

[Jamie_M]

2 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

You deal with the cards you’ve been dealt with and go as far as you possibly can with the resources at your disposal.

There's a huge difference between ambitions, dreams and current, immediate term strategy.

This isn't a puff piece to sell season tickets. It's a strategy for the next 3 years to move Morton forward with a raised bottom level of expectation.

Nobody is saying they don't have the ambition of promotion and consolidation and you can absolutely guarantee our current manager isn't limiting that sort of expectation.

You have mentioned 'with the resources at your disposal' several times without paying any real attention to ours though.

It's well reported that we have one of the lowest budgets in the division. A relegation budget. We are already performing beyond our resources. We are fan owned. We don't have a boat to push out.

While the strategy is light on the 'how' - let's take a stab at a piece of it in terms of resources.

Our previous target was 8th. By setting the expected minimum as 4th in the Championship and stating expected Cup progression (so budgeting for qualification from Viaplay groups and a round of the Scottish cup) that's £150k extra league prize money, £50k extra cup prize money and a minimum extra split of a round of playoff gate money.

That's not setting a 'title and promotion only' break even budget in the face of depleting cash reserves like Partick did. It's a steady and reasonable next step.

We can't bank on it and need contingency as there is no owner to bail us out if it goes tits up but with belief in the strategy, a portion of that at least will be factored in when setting the next budget.

Maybe that'll allow us to afford to get a few more players signed up in July on 12 month deals instead of waiting until October so we only have to pay for 9 month deals which will ultimately help with the early part of the strategy.

[Ferguson]

Someone who's gone slightly under the radar recently is Tyler French, what a turnaround in him. Pipped to man of the match last night by Alan Power only who's been a level above everyone for weeks. Not suggesting we throw a contract at him now as there's still a lot of football to play, but if we were to announce a pre-contract for French today I'd be pleased.

[Alibi]

Of course it's ridiculous to set a target of top 16 due to the near-impossibility of reaching the top 4 or 5 places, so the target might have been better stated as being to reach a level where we get promotion and once we manage that we aim for position 5 or 6 if things go well enough financially.  Something along those lines that are within the bounds of possibility.  Stating that we are aiming for top 16 is a fairly vague target - we know what is meant but we also have to set targets with a degree of realism.  The biggest hurdle to get over is promotion - once we have achieved that, the business plan needs to be revised to where we go from there, and I'd imagine it might be to get into the top 6 on occasion at the top end but mainly to avoid relegation.  no harm in dreaming but tempered with realism, and our targets will probably keep moving.

[Mayos Noun]

Alan Power is an absolute baller. 
 

Wasn’t impressed initially and looked unfit. Now he’s fit and dominating every game, he should be signed up for next season. 

[DreamOakTree1]

22 hours ago, Jamie_M said:

There's a huge difference between ambitions, dreams and current, immediate term strategy.

This isn't a puff piece to sell season tickets. It's a strategy for the next 3 years to move Morton forward with a raised bottom level of expectation.

Nobody is saying they don't have the ambition of promotion and consolidation and you can absolutely guarantee our current manager isn't limiting that sort of expectation.

You have mentioned 'with the resources at your disposal' several times without paying any real attention to ours though.

It's well reported that we have one of the lowest budgets in the division. A relegation budget. We are already performing beyond our resources. We are fan owned. We don't have a boat to push out.

While the strategy is light on the 'how' - let's take a stab at a piece of it in terms of resources.

Our previous target was 8th. By setting the expected minimum as 4th in the Championship and stating expected Cup progression (so budgeting for qualification from Viaplay groups and a round of the Scottish cup) that's £150k extra league prize money, £50k extra cup prize money and a minimum extra split of a round of playoff gate money.

That's not setting a 'title and promotion only' break even budget in the face of depleting cash reserves like Partick did. It's a steady and reasonable next step.

We can't bank on it and need contingency as there is no owner to bail us out if it goes tits up but with belief in the strategy, a portion of that at least will be factored in when setting the next budget.

Maybe that'll allow us to afford to get a few more players signed up in July on 12 month deals instead of waiting until October so we only have to pay for 9 month deals which will ultimately help with the early part of the strategy.

I can’t really disagree with any of that. However the “vagueness” as someone mentioned, of a targeted top 16 finish doesn’t fully meet the model of realistic, achievable and specific, as it is very unspecific. 
If, as you’ve alluded to, the board are aiming to consolidate our position as a top end Championship club over the next 3 years, and then move on from there, then perhaps there’s something tangible in that plan. 
I would also be encouraged if privately they are aiming a bit higher than that and don’t want to raise fans’ expectations, as Dougie and the coaching and playing staff appear to be doing.

[Sergeant Wilson]

On 27/02/2024 at 17:16, DreamOakTree1 said:

100% correct.

You deal with the cards you’ve been dealt with and go as far as you possibly can with the resources at your disposal.
I always said it was my Project Teams that succeeded s and made me look good, and they loved going for the goals I’d set them. 
For some reason I was always given the team members no-one else wanted, and I said I’ll take them as I knew if you gave them a target and trusted them with it then they’re deliver every time.

It’s not rocket science, it’s knowing how to manage and motivate human beings, whilst your competitors are only doing the same thing.! You just need to do it better than they do.

You don't seem to be getting anyone on here to buy into your goals.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

You don't seem to be getting anyone on here to buy into your goals.

Unless his goal was to make himself look like a complete and utter fanny, in which case he's over-delivered yet again.

[purplemonkeydishwasher]

When was the last time Morton went an unbeaten run of 16 games? Anyone got stats on this, would be good to see.

[Alibi]

54 minutes ago, purplemonkeydishwasher said:

When was the last time Morton went an unbeaten run of 16 games? Anyone got stats on this, would be good to see.

I think the answer to that might be never if cup games are included.  If they aren't, we certainly won 23 league games in a row at the start of the 1963-4 season (continuing on from winning the last three games the previous season) although that run was split by our loss in the league cup final if cup games are included, and also a loss to Celtic in the cup in about January 64.  So in league games we can claim a 26 game winning run (no draws) but this current run seems to be the best ever when all competitions are included.  It's certainly some achievement and I can see it continuing if our injured players are not out for the long term.  Hearts on the horizon though, and it will be interesting to see how we get on against what looks like a very good team.

[Paisley Ton]

Hearts leadup to our game has been Rangers ( shagged), Hibs ( lucky draw, penalty) and Celtic this W/e. 

Expect Celtic to get right into them as anything less than a win will be season over.

So their confidence maybe be on the downward spiral, lets hope so.

 

Edited March 1 by Paisley Ton

[Ferguson]

Wishing injury on players is poor form, but in the nicest possible way I'd love to see Shankland go off injured this weekend. Nothing serious, just a wee dunt to take him out of commission for a couple of weeks.

[DreamOakTree1]

Dougie's pre-match statement was completely out of character to the extent I knew we were losing the match before a ball was kicked. It was inexplicable for him to express his worry that we could be dragged into the relegation battle, and that we were three points away from our target of safety.

Big Dunc must've thought his team talk was already done for him, as he would surely have told his players to go for an early goal to cement the negative mindset Dougie had given his players.

This on a day when we could've gone into 3rd place, was almost unfathomable from Dougie. I say almost because the only reason I can think of is that Dougie was worried about making the expectation levels too high, which could make him victim of his own success. He could be looking at the board's target of 16th place in Scotland and thinking our best run in years has got us to that position and he's maybe got us punching above our weight. So subconsciously or otherwise he wanted to get everyone's feet back on the ground, and the direct unavoidable consequence was the run ending.

This is the polar opposite of him stating before the Scottish Cup Draw "We'll take anyone at Cappielow". You could see the players starting the game against Motherwell with the belief that Dougie had given them, just as you could see them start yesterday's match on an absolute downer.

I hope I'm right that this is just a one off error by Dougie, and that he get's back to his natural positive self before Tuesday's match.

 

[Toby]

11 minutes ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

Dougie's pre-match statement was completely out of character to the extent I knew we were losing the match before a ball was kicked. It was inexplicable for him to express his worry that we could be dragged into the relegation battle, and that we were three points away from our target of safety.

Big Dunc must've thought his team talk was already done for him, as he would surely have told his players to go for an early goal to cement the negative mindset Dougie had given his players.

This on a day when we could've gone into 3rd place, was almost unfathomable from Dougie. I say almost because the only reason I can think of is that Dougie was worried about making the expectation levels too high, which could make him victim of his own success. He could be looking at the board's target of 16th place in Scotland and thinking our best run in years has got us to that position and he's maybe got us punching above our weight. So subconsciously or otherwise he wanted to get everyone's feet back on the ground, and the direct unavoidable consequence was the run ending.

This is the polar opposite of him stating before the Scottish Cup Draw "We'll take anyone at Cappielow". You could see the players starting the game against Motherwell with the belief that Dougie had given them, just as you could see them start yesterday's match on an absolute downer.

I hope I'm right that this is just a one off error by Dougie, and that he get's back to his natural positive self before Tuesday's match.

 

Jesus wept.