Yet another US shooting

[10menwent2mow]

Only in America could a celebration of a sporting achievement be turned into folk getting shot. Murica  f**k yeah. 

[johnnydun]

34 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

Only in America could a celebration of a sporting achievement be turned into folk getting shot. Murica  f**k yeah. 

While over here we have mutants taking a shite on the street.

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, 10menwent2mow said:

Only in America could a celebration of a sporting achievement be turned into folk getting shot. Murica  f**k yeah. 

Probably better phrased as "the Americas", given Colombia's record of lodging complaints with own goal scorers.

[Boo Khaki]

Presumably it was Marquez Valdez-Scantling and Kadarius Toney who dropped the shooters?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

10 hours ago, TxRover said:

The basic problems are; there was no clear process for designation of a onsite leader, there was no attempt to follow current training to attack the shooter until they are neutralised, and both officers (and parents, for that matter) attempting to take action were prevented from doing so. While it’s easy to blame the Uvalde ISD Police Chief, the charge wouldn’t stand simply because there is no damning evidence he WAS in charge and/or knew it.

I would like to know how the police who prevented a fellow officer, whose wife bled to death during the waiting, from attacking the room where the suspect was barricaded are dealing with that? Or the cops who threatened parents and bystanders with arrest if they didn’t move away from the school while some of their children either bled to death or were executed for calling out in response to the police? I’m shocked how few of the involved officers have resigned.

Fewer than 10 officers have faced any discipline or charges for this massacre, and it’s doubtful any more could be charged. The coroner charged with investigating how many may have survived if police intervened sooner was dismissed shortly after he got started and had announced at least 1 person was alive 20 minutes after it started (died before the 70 minute mark), and that another 4 had heartbeats when the situation ended but died. He was then removed, the investigation shutdown, and he was never given access to autopsy data.

Im sorry but i disagree with you, the up chief was the most senior officer at the locus, unless its claimed elsewhere that means given its his jurisdiction that its his ball. Granted i work in a different area, but as a supervisor if i go to something then its clear as to who is in charge and thats something that you have to be able to be answerable to your decisions. That idiot went to that school to play at big shot and was overwhelmed, his inaction led to children being killed. My understanding is the tactic is the same in the US as it is in the UK, that active shooters should be engaged and stopped, he failed to do that and actively prevented capable police officers from doing so. You can hear the shots going on as he holds the containment. It was despicable. Sometimes you find yourself in situations where you’re terrified, but he was a shitebag and should be locked up. Another one who loved the title ‘police chief’ but failed to do his duty. 

[101]

8 hours ago, peasy23 said:

3 suspects have been arrested.

 

 

But no one charged yet which strikes me as odd, you would think it would be a pretty simple case.

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 hours ago, Barry Ferguson's Hat said:

There hasn't been a good one in ages.

Kimberlee Singler makes up for a low head count, with a fair amount of horror and stupidity.

Still, they're welcome to extradite her via my house.

Edited February 15 by Sergeant Wilson

[Binos]

Biden, whomever incumbent at time needs conviction(s) brought against them 

 

[ICTChris]

One of the shooters being tackled by Chiefs fans

 

 

[welshbairn]

13 hours ago, Barry Ferguson's Hat said:

There hasn't been a good one in ages.

They're trying their best, 49th mass shooting in 45 days this year.

P.S. Reportedly 2 of the gunmen fired their weapons from inside their rucksacks.

 

Edited February 15 by welshbairn

[TxRover]

5 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Im sorry but i disagree with you, the up chief was the most senior officer at the locus, unless its claimed elsewhere that means given its his jurisdiction that its his ball. Granted i work in a different area, but as a supervisor if i go to something then its clear as to who is in charge and thats something that you have to be able to be answerable to your decisions. That idiot went to that school to play at big shot and was overwhelmed, his inaction led to children being killed. My understanding is the tactic is the same in the US as it is in the UK, that active shooters should be engaged and stopped, he failed to do that and actively prevented capable police officers from doing so. You can hear the shots going on as he holds the containment. It was despicable. Sometimes you find yourself in situations where you’re terrified, but he was a shitebag and should be locked up. Another one who loved the title ‘police chief’ but failed to do his duty. 

That statement isn’t disagreeing with me, other than misunderstanding the mixed jurisdictional question. The problem was you had officers from ISD, City and several other Federal and State agencies present and arriving at various times. The ISD Chief was the head of a small six person department, and was one of the first on the scene…he was clearing classrooms with a City Officer when they found where the gunman was barricaded when he opened fire (and they failed to shoot their way in…major error). His radio, known to fail to work inside school buildings, was in his patrol car, and he had been acting as a first responder. Given those factors, he “assumed” there was another coordinating Officer present…certainly the Uvalde police had a number of more senior Officers on site than the Chief of a small department, however then you get into rule, regulations and other crap.

My point is they likely can’t prosecute him successfully, something I dislike intensely. His interviews laying out these f@cats are self-serving, but accurately sum up the issues with mutual aid agreements that don’t specify command and control.

The current directive is to “push to the shooter until they are neutralised”. Those 400 or so responders failed to do that and, as a result, most of those children had to be identified by their shoes as they had been effectively decapitated by shots to the head.

[TxRover]

5 hours ago, 101 said:

But no one charged yet which strikes me as odd, you would think it would be a pretty simple case.

How? Witnesses are unreliable, and simply seeing a shooter tells the police nothing about if the shooter was a bad guy or a responding good guy (I know, it’s a f**king insane situation, but there’s a fair chance that plain clothes officers were dispersed throughout the crowd). You then have the fact the “identified person” is a description of one person in a crowd of hundreds of thousands. Literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people would have legally been carrying weapons at that event (again, I know).

The other big problem is the most likely shooters in a case like this are from communities where the police are distrusted and witnesses will NOT easily or quickly come forward to talk to the police. The loss of local beat officers , and the isolation of patrol officers in vehicles, has eroded the lines of communication and trust to a great extent.

[Ned Nederlander]

4 hours ago, welshbairn said:

They're trying their best, 49th mass shooting in 45 days this year.

P.S. Reportedly 2 of the gunmen fired their weapons from inside their rucksacks.

 

Some of the comments ffs

NRA types falling over themselves to point out that this particular mass shooting involved an illegal gun

[Salt n Vinegar]

42 minutes ago, Ned Nederlander said:

Some of the comments ffs

NRA types falling over themselves to point out that this particular mass shooting involved an illegal gun

Do the folk in the NRA think that there's any such thing as "an illegal gun"?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 hours ago, TxRover said:

How? Witnesses are unreliable, and simply seeing a shooter tells the police nothing about if the shooter was a bad guy or a responding good guy (I know, it’s a f**king insane situation, but there’s a fair chance that plain clothes officers were dispersed throughout the crowd). You then have the fact the “identified person” is a description of one person in a crowd of hundreds of thousands. Literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people would have legally been carrying weapons at that event (again, I know).

The other big problem is the most likely shooters in a case like this are from communities where the police are distrusted and witnesses will NOT easily or quickly come forward to talk to the police. The loss of local beat officers , and the isolation of patrol officers in vehicles, has eroded the lines of communication and trust to a great extent.

The issues with too many forces in the states is clear, but school police depts should be drilled in what to do in these circumstances, they are supposed to drill for them and senior officers are supposed to know their role in the situation and unfortunately its not to jump about and be the hero when there are dozens of other police officers present, he failed to ensure he had appropriately functioning equipment, it was a failure of leadership, he failed to step back and coordinate allowing it to descend into chaos. He absolutely should be prosecuted. I know my role in the event of a major incident, he should have done his correctly and also ensured his department had functioning radios suitable for purpose. 

[TxRover]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The issues with too many forces in the states is clear, but school police depts should be drilled in what to do in these circumstances, they are supposed to drill for them and senior officers are supposed to know their role in the situation and unfortunately its not to jump about and be the hero when there are dozens of other police officers present, he failed to ensure he had appropriately functioning equipment, it was a failure of leadership, he failed to step back and coordinate allowing it to descend into chaos. He absolutely should be prosecuted. I know my role in the event of a major incident, he should have done his correctly and also ensured his department had functioning radios suitable for purpose. 

Absolutely agree…but he was officer number two on site and runs a 6 person department. His training was/is shit, his reaction wasn’t “bad” in terms of going in to hunt, but it was a HUGE mistake in terms of SOMEONE needed to be in clear control from the outset.

If a single person have been in control, direction of officers to the barricaded classroom hallway AND the exterior windows would have allowed determination which of the two connected classrooms he was in and violent forcing of the other door WHILE officers engaged the shooter through the windows. Yes, there’s a shoot through risk, but there’s also innocent kids and teachers dying and it’s their job.

All that being said, he can’t be prosecuted for failing to protect the kids, as the Supreme Court has said that’s not a thing…shocking as that is. The failure to do his duty properly is a civil matter, unfortunately, and he was fired for it, and is probably being sued…however, the ISD will have to stand in his place unless they can meet a really high hurdle to remove his qualified immunity to civil action.

There is no easy answer here. Guns will not be “banned”, there isn’t enough money to do it because it would be a legal taking and would have to be compensated. That’s, at a minimum, assuming around 300 million guns to be collected (allows for 20% to remain in circulation), and a value of around $900 per on average, $270 billion on purchase along, let alone the fact most cannot be traced and will not be surrendered. Then you get into accessories, ammunition, etc…easily a trillion plus, AFTER you change the Constitution.

The one “easy” step would be taxing/limiting ammunition, but that would take decades to take any real impact due to the amount in circulation and reloading. It also might fall afoul of the 2nd Amendment as a defacto ban.

[peasy23]

 

 

[JS_FFC]

1 hour ago, peasy23 said:

 

 

Stating the obvious a bit here from these highly paid investigators. Surely all shootings are due to some kind of “dispute”

[Sergeant Wilson]

They're lucky they remembered to take their guns, I'd forget more often the not. It takes me about half an hour to get out the house with my phone wallet and keys.

[TxRover]

7 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

They're lucky they remembered to take their guns, I'd forget more often the not. It takes me about half an hour to get out the house with my phone wallet and keys.

You can remember your phone? I usually make it to the car before realizing I forgot mine.

Meanwhile, falling acorn = spray your patrol unit with bullets:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/okaloosa-deputy-shooting-falling-acorn_n_65ce1b7de4b0dd11b91220e6