When will indyref2 happen?

[BFTD]

31 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The other week @Jedi2 was claiming that the SNP were going down the UDI route.

Now he's coming away with this pish.

He's just confirming that he's nothing more than a SLab stooge.

He seems to have been fizzing with SNP BAD since realising that Labour have no intention of doing anything he wants them to.

It's like when your mate gets his heart broken and goes through a phase of hating women.

[Jedi2]

10 minutes ago, BFTD said:

He seems to have been fizzing with SNP BAD since realising that Labour have no intention of doing anything he wants them to.

It's like when your mate gets his heart broken and goes through a phase of hating women.

I'm raging at Starmer putting out a wee card with pledges to set up a Publicly Owned Energy Company, cut NHS Waiting lists, ditch the Rwanda scheme, and aim for greater Economic stability, while also publishing a substantial paper on enhanced Devolution across the UK? No, not really..more than happy to improve the NHS, have a more sensible Immigration approach, a public ownership of Energy etc

'Fizzing' at the SNP for taking the people of Scotland and indeed their own supporters for a ride with the most confused/inconsistent 'strategy' for Independence?..Yes.

[Suspect Device]

29 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

I'm raging at Starmer putting out a wee card with pledges to set up a Publicly Owned Energy Company, cut NHS Waiting lists, ditch the Rwanda scheme, and aim for greater Economic stability, while also publishing a substantial paper on enhanced Devolution across the UK? No, not really..more than happy to improve the NHS, have a more sensible Immigration approach, a public ownership of Energy etc

'Fizzing' at the SNP for taking the people of Scotland and indeed their own supporters for a ride with the most confused/inconsistent 'strategy' for Independence?..Yes.

 

Will he stick to his pledges this time or just bin them like all his other pledges?

[lichtgilphead]

@Jedi2

If you are too stupid to realise that I was responding to individual points in your previous post, let me help you out by putting your original assertions with my responses (and if necessary amplification) below. Your nonsense is in red.

 

The key part there is 'if' Scotland rejoins the EU...need to get the debt levels down to the right levels first

Scotland currently has no debt. (The Scottish Government budget must balance and it is not allowed to incur debt apart from small amounts in tightly defined circumstances. I think that the word you may be looking for is 'deficit,' as set out in the EU Convergance Criteria. 

then overcome the potential Spanish veto

The Spanish have repeatedly said that they will not veto Scotlands entry to the EU

(See https://europeforscotland.com/the-enduring-myth-of-the-spanish-veto/

Where did I say that "the red carpet was out"? As ever, you are telling lies about what I said. The only point I made was to counter your nonsense about a potential Spanish veto)

and that is after a near decade of cutting public spending and services to get the debt to the right level.

Scotland currently has no debt (you are still confusing deficit with debt. Try to keep up)

How long does it take an Indy Scotland to strike its own trade deals with other countries in the meantime?

 If Scotland is in the EU, we will use the EUs trade deals (and if we are not immediately in the EU, we will apply WTO tarrifs, exactly as WM did when they crashed GB out of the EU)

How long to negotiate share of rUK debt?

If Scotland owes a share of UK debt, it also owns a share of UK assets. If rUK want to keep all the assets, they can keep the debt too. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK debts are bigger than the UK assets, but that you think that things are fine? (Why do Yoons always talk about Scotland's sharethe UK's collective debts, yet assume that the UK will retain all the UK's collective assets?. Look at when Eire left the UK - they retained all UK assets in Eire, but made no claim to a share of any other assets. More importantly, they took on none of the UK's debts)

 How long to prepare for Scot currency? 

I was at the Lithuanian banking museum a few years ago. They converted in a day. Initially, they applied a stamp to the existing rouble notes. Given that we already have our own notes in circulation... (I gave an example of a near seamless transition, starting from a point further back than the current situation in Scotland)

Which cutting public spending

Yeah. Public spending will be cut. I propose that we start with nukes, Rwanda flights, Crossrail & HS2. (So you do actually disagree with Sir Keir on nukes. Just like Scottish Labour (who won't rock the boat) but excluding Jackie Bailie who loves a nuke or two. What a fantastic well thought out policy position

 

So @Jedi2, if you could respond to these individual points without putting words into my mouth, that would be just dandy.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

2 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

@Jedi2

If you are too stupid to realise that I was responding to individual points in your previous post, let me help you out by putting your original assertions with my responses (and if necessary amplification) below. Your nonsense is in red.

 

The key part there is 'if' Scotland rejoins the EU...need to get the debt levels down to the right levels first

Scotland currently has no debt. (The Scottish Government budget must balance and it is not allowed to incur debt apart from small amounts in tightly defined circumstances. I think that the word you may be looking for is 'deficit,' as set out in the EU Convergance Criteria. 

then overcome the potential Spanish veto

The Spanish have repeatedly said that they will not veto Scotlands entry to the EU

(See https://europeforscotland.com/the-enduring-myth-of-the-spanish-veto/

Where did I say that "the red carpet was out"? As ever, you are telling lies about what I said. The only point I made was to counter your nonsense about a potential Spanish veto)

and that is after a near decade of cutting public spending and services to get the debt to the right level.

Scotland currently has no debt (you are still confusing deficit with debt. Try to keep up)

How long does it take an Indy Scotland to strike its own trade deals with other countries in the meantime?

 If Scotland is in the EU, we will use the EUs trade deals (and if we are not immediately in the EU, we will apply WTO tarrifs, exactly as WM did when they crashed GB out of the EU)

How long to negotiate share of rUK debt?

If Scotland owes a share of UK debt, it also owns a share of UK assets. If rUK want to keep all the assets, they can keep the debt too. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK debts are bigger than the UK assets, but that you think that things are fine? (Why do Yoons always talk about Scotland's sharethe UK's collective debts, yet assume that the UK will retain all the UK's collective assets?. Look at when Eire left the UK - they retained all UK assets in Eire, but made no claim to a share of any other assets. More importantly, they took on none of the UK's debts)

 How long to prepare for Scot currency? 

I was at the Lithuanian banking museum a few years ago. They converted in a day. Initially, they applied a stamp to the existing rouble notes. Given that we already have our own notes in circulation... (I gave an example of a near seamless transition, starting from a point further back than the current situation in Scotland)

Which cutting public spending

Yeah. Public spending will be cut. I propose that we start with nukes, Rwanda flights, Crossrail & HS2. (So you do actually disagree with Sir Keir on nukes. Just like Scottish Labour (who won't rock the boat) but excluding Jackie Bailie who loves a nuke or two. What a fantastic well thought out policy position

 

So @Jedi2, if you could respond to these individual points without putting words into my mouth, that would be just dandy.

 

Scott isn't going to answer this.

[Highlandmagar]

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

I'm raging at Starmer putting out a wee card with pledges to set up a Publicly Owned Energy Company, cut NHS Waiting lists, ditch the Rwanda scheme, and aim for greater Economic stability, while also publishing a substantial paper on enhanced Devolution across the UK? No, not really..more than happy to improve the NHS, have a more sensible Immigration approach, a public ownership of Energy etc

'Fizzing' at the SNP for taking the people of Scotland and indeed their own supporters for a ride with the most confused/inconsistent 'strategy' for Independence?..Yes.

All words and no content. Will they actually put some flesh on the bones of these " policies"?

[Highlandmagar]

33 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Scott isn't going to answer this.

Oh now! Be fair! He does answer, but not with any sensible or truthful answers.

The old SLab line. Do what Westminster tells them to do. Dreadful party.

Edited May 18 by Highlandmagar

[DeeTillEhDeh]

8 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said:

All words and no content. Will they actually put some flesh on the bones of these " policies"?

No.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The Lithuanian banking museum sounds like a fucking thrilling day out tbf. Ive cancelled the disneyworld trip and told the wee man we’re off there, delighted. 
 

nah but in all seriousness, the SNP are totally shite and have done a terrible job in government. But there is something inherently creepy about a Scottish person passionately arguing that we are too wee too stupid too ill prepared to be independent. Keith Starmer is just a tory wearing a different tie. If labour get in in London we wont be any better off, sure he’ll make nice noises about how everyone is lovely, but he’ll do whatever big industry tells him, hes already scrapped the key pledges which would make life better for the working man/woman. Labour have walked away from the working class. Save me the ‘oh but we’re trying to appeal to the tory voters’ f**k off, they’re going after these fuckers as if its the reincarnation of John Major. Its neo thatcherite shite peddled by people who went to uni (for free but dont think others should get it for free) and got a cushy job as a researcher or one of those non job union jobs who have no grasp of reality. Politics isnt a fucking game, the decisions these arseholes take destroy lives. We now live in a country where my kid will likely have (and currently does in some situations) less access to healthcare, education and public services than my generation. That in itself should be a source of national embarrassment. We need a new politics. 

[lichtgilphead]

4 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The Lithuanian banking museum sounds like a fucking thrilling day out tbf. Ive cancelled the disneyworld trip and told the wee man we’re off there, delighted. 

Given the choice between the banking museum & my experience taking the kids to queue for hours at Eurodisney, I'll take the history of Baltic banking every time. 

Parc Asterix pisses all over Disney if you're planning on taking the kids to a theme park near Paris.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

4 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

Given the choice between the banking museum & my experience taking the kids to queue for hours at Eurodisney, I'll take the history of Baltic banking every time. 

Parc Asterix pisses all over Disney if you're planning on taking the kids to a theme park near Paris.

Dont like eurodisney (although it might be decent when the new lands open up) but florida takes some beating! I love Parc Asterix, went there in 99 and had a blast, the wooden coaster was brilliant.

[Alan Twelve]

21 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

Starmer with a plan? Jesus! That's the best joke you have come out with yet.

Hiya, Rish!

[lichtgilphead]

59 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Dont like eurodisney (although it might be decent when the new lands open up) but florida takes some beating! I love Parc Asterix, went there in 99 and had a blast, the wooden coaster was brilliant.

I went to Parc Asterix with the kids in '97, so must have been on mainly the same rides

 I actually preferred the other roller coaster, but thought the Cirque de Something-or-other acrobatic show was the best thing there.

Kids loved everything, unlike Disney which was just queueing in extreme heat.

[Jedi2]

13 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

@Jedi2

If you are too stupid to realise that I was responding to individual points in your previous post, let me help you out by putting your original assertions with my responses (and if necessary amplification) below. Your nonsense is in red.

 

The key part there is 'if' Scotland rejoins the EU...need to get the debt levels down to the right levels first

Scotland currently has no debt. (The Scottish Government budget must balance and it is not allowed to incur debt apart from small amounts in tightly defined circumstances. I think that the word you may be looking for is 'deficit,' as set out in the EU Convergance Criteria. 

then overcome the potential Spanish veto

The Spanish have repeatedly said that they will not veto Scotlands entry to the EU

(See https://europeforscotland.com/the-enduring-myth-of-the-spanish-veto/

Where did I say that "the red carpet was out"? As ever, you are telling lies about what I said. The only point I made was to counter your nonsense about a potential Spanish veto)

and that is after a near decade of cutting public spending and services to get the debt to the right level.

Scotland currently has no debt (you are still confusing deficit with debt. Try to keep up)

How long does it take an Indy Scotland to strike its own trade deals with other countries in the meantime?

 If Scotland is in the EU, we will use the EUs trade deals (and if we are not immediately in the EU, we will apply WTO tarrifs, exactly as WM did when they crashed GB out of the EU)

How long to negotiate share of rUK debt?

If Scotland owes a share of UK debt, it also owns a share of UK assets. If rUK want to keep all the assets, they can keep the debt too. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK debts are bigger than the UK assets, but that you think that things are fine? (Why do Yoons always talk about Scotland's sharethe UK's collective debts, yet assume that the UK will retain all the UK's collective assets?. Look at when Eire left the UK - they retained all UK assets in Eire, but made no claim to a share of any other assets. More importantly, they took on none of the UK's debts)

 How long to prepare for Scot currency? 

I was at the Lithuanian banking museum a few years ago. They converted in a day. Initially, they applied a stamp to the existing rouble notes. Given that we already have our own notes in circulation... (I gave an example of a near seamless transition, starting from a point further back than the current situation in Scotland)

Which cutting public spending

Yeah. Public spending will be cut. I propose that we start with nukes, Rwanda flights, Crossrail & HS2. (So you do actually disagree with Sir Keir on nukes. Just like Scottish Labour (who won't rock the boat) but excluding Jackie Bailie who loves a nuke or two. What a fantastic well thought out policy position

 

So @Jedi2, if you could respond to these individual points without putting words into my mouth, that would be just dandy.

 

I appreciate that you have an ego larger than Canada, while dismissing anything which suggests anything other than the SNP govt have done the bestest job eva over the past 17 years, as 'lies', but..

 

Spanish Veto

Depends who you believe, and also depends on which party is governing Spain at the time of a Scottish application.  Can't always just dismiss any sources such as these as 'lies'. So, could a 'Spanish govt' veto a Scottish application? We don't know.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-could-veto-independent-scotland-says-minister/

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-membership-spain-scotland/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11054187/Spain-and-Belgium-would-veto-an-independent-Scotlands-EU-membership.html

https://murciatoday.com/how-a-veto-from-spain-could-stop-scotland-joining-the-eu-in-2023_1891364-a.html

Currency

Lithuania is 'one' example. Even the current SNP proposals are to move to a Scot currency 'as soon as practically possible'. Timescale-still unknown. Will a 'proposal' be published in advance of a Referendum? At the moment, don't know.

 

Debt Free/UK debt v assets

You are right. Scotland is currently 'debt free' in terms of balancing books. However, that pesky SNP proposal is to take on a 'proportionate' share of rUK debt (which obviously accrues 'debt' as a starting point for an Indy Scotland. Assets.. Will they be part of negotiations? I would imagine so (and rightly so)...how far do 'debts and assets' balance out? Guess what..we don't know until negotiations pan out.

Cutting Public Spending

Again, a current SNP proposal. Of course if they moved to an EFTA position, this would be less of a requirement as they aren't chasing the Aquis deficit ceiling

Could Scotland quickly strike trade deals if part of EFTA? Of course.

 

[Jedi2]

Also, nowhere have I suggested that Scotland couldn't be Independent. There is no 'too wee, too poor' etc. Scottish Independence decoupled from the SNP could absolutely be a success.

A decoupled from the SNP which rather than champing at the bit to cut public spending to chase the Aquis, could join EFTA and set up its own trading agreements, while having control of immigration policy.

Rather than cutting public spending, looking to borrow (with the new powers) to invest in Education Health Social Care etc

Having a Charter of Workers and Trade Union Rights embedded as part of a newly Independent country rather than seeking a 'Bankers, Spivs and Speculators' version of Independence.

Looking to set up a Scot Currency as quickly as possible and not being reliant on the B of E to set interest rates 

Taking advantage of Scotlands competitive advantages in life sciences, technology, food and drink and tourism, rather than seeking a fire sale of Scottish assets to make a quick buck for the Bankers.

None of these are currently proposed by the SNP. However with polling on Indy currently significantly outstripping SNP support, hopefully we can reach a stage where Scotland becomes Independent with a majority of its people in mind, not just a tiny cabal cosetted around Sturgeon and Co 

[lichtgilphead]

6 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

I appreciate that you have an ego larger than Canada, while dismissing anything which suggests anything other than the SNP govt have done the bestest job eva over the past 17 years, as 'lies', but..

No Jedi, I just demollish your outright lies & half truths with facts. Prepare for some more debunking of your nonsense.

9 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Spanish Veto

Depends who you believe, and also depends on which party is governing Spain at the time of a Scottish application.  Can't always just dismiss any sources such as these as 'lies'. So, could a 'Spanish govt' veto a Scottish application? We don't know.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-could-veto-independent-scotland-says-minister/

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-membership-spain-scotland/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11054187/Spain-and-Belgium-would-veto-an-independent-Scotlands-EU-membership.html

https://murciatoday.com/how-a-veto-from-spain-could-stop-scotland-joining-the-eu-in-2023_1891364-a.html

1st link - dated more than 10 years ago - Spanish minister refuses to confirm whether Spain will veto. He also doesn't confirm that they won't. Meaningless pish.

2nd link - dated over 7 years ago - "WHAT WAS CLAIMED The Spanish government hasn’t said that it would veto an independent Scotland joining the European Union. OUR VERDICT Correct"

How does this support your argument, Jedi? It specifically saus that Joanne Cherry "has a point" with her claim

3rd link - dated just under 10 years ago, but hidden behind a paywall - some Irish politician I've never heard of predicts that BOTH Spain & Belgium would block Scotland from joining the EU. 

Well, that's me convinced. I'm sure he was speaking with the full knowledge & approval of both the Spanish & Belgian governments

Now, do you notice anything significant about the dates of your links? They were all published before the UK left the EU. My link dates from 18 months ago, and takes Brexit into account.

Now that the UK isn't a member state any more, do you really think that they will all hold the same views? There's a school of thought that the EU wants to GIRU the UK, so are now potentially sympatheric to Indy. Please factor this in to any reply.

4th Link - is from only two and a half years ago, but consists of another politician I've never heard of saying that Spain will block Scottish entry to the EU if Scotland declares UDI during the Spnish elections in 2023.

Just in case you haven't noticed Jedi, your ideas that Nicola/Humza would declare UDI have been widely debunked on here already, and guess what? UDI wasn't declared in 2023!

Do you really think that there's any point in you continuing your pathetic claims on this sublect?

48 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Currency

Lithuania is 'one' example. Even the current SNP proposals are to move to a Scot currency 'as soon as practically possible'. Timescale-still unknown. Will a 'proposal' be published in advance of a Referendum? At the moment, don't know.

You asked "How long to prepare for a Scots currency" I pointed out that another country did it in a day. I'm not saying that Scotland would want to do it in a day - Eire took a number of years to uncouple from sterling, but did so when the time was right for them to do so.

Setting a specific future date is a stupid policy, especially if (as you suggest) the BoE decides to specifically act against Scotland's interests. Given that the UK's two biggest foreign currency earners are from Scotland (whisky & oil, I believe), do you really think that the BoE will want to accelerate Scotland's move to our own currency or the Euro?

59 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Debt Free

You are right. Scotland is currently 'debt free'

 

I know.

You really made an arse of yourself, didn't you. I hope your PhD isn't in Economics

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

UK debt v assets

However, that pesky SNP proposal is to take on a 'proportionate' share of rUK debt (which obviously accrues 'debt' as a starting point for an Indy Scotland. Assets.. Will they be part of negotiations? I would imagine so (and rightly so)...how far do 'debts and assets' balance out? Guess what..we don't know until negotiations pan out.

At least you now acknowledge that Scotland will be entitled to a share of UK assets if we take on some UK debts. The timescale is all about dragging WM to the negotiating table. Given that the precedent has been set by Eire leaving the UK, I'm pretty sure that they will be happy to negotiate as soon as a referendum is won.

Given the current WM refusal to even begin discussions, the ball is in theit court.

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

Cutting Public Spending

Again, a current SNP proposal. Of course if they moved to an EFTA position, this would be less of a requirement as they aren't chasing the Aquis deficit ceiling

Could Scotland quickly strike trade deals if part of EFTA? Of course.

You'll need to provide detailed proof of these proposed SNP spending cuts. I previously suggested 4 areas, where Scotland is billed enormous sums for UK government policies that don't benefit Scotland. Why do you appear to be incapable of doing the same?

In addition, your question presupposes that the SNP will be in power in Holyrood after independence. Given that I intend to resign from the party once the fundimental objective is achieved, do you really think that the SNP won't split?

EFTA is a total red herring. I want Scotland to be a full EU member. Perhaps I'll have a difficult decision to make when the Spain & Belgium vetoes are joined by Germany in retalilation for Scotland winning Euro24. 

 

[Jedi2]

I do love the claim that the succession and establishment of the Republic of Ireland 102 years ago acts as a 'precedent' for how Scottish/rUK assets will be divided now. Did other countries which declared Independence from the UK Post 1922 get a share of assets?

Speaking of assets, from the SNP's own document 'Scotland's Future':

Scotland would be entitled to around £150 million allowing us to establish ourselves quickly and for little initial cost in our priority countries.

www.iflr.com

That is a share of UK Embassies

They also make a claim on military assets (based, of course on potential negotiations) for around a £7 billion share

Again from the SNP's own document The Growth Commission, the Solidarity Payments proposed to cover a share of UK liabilities are around £6 billion.

The Annual Solidarity Payment is modelled at around £5 billion, including debt servicing contributions, 0.7% GNP contribution for foreign aid and a further £1 billion set aside for other shared services, continued the report.

Spanish Veto

Still dependent upon who is in power in Spain at the time, you can't just cherrypick favoured Spanish voices of the moment and dismiss those who aren't 'on message'.

Public Sector Cuts

All there in the Growth Commission Report.Given that Kate Forbes was one of its architects, don't think that it's 'going away'

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/weak-public-finance-position-implies-more-austerity-independent-scotland

https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i307/gc_5_the_truth_about_austerity.aspx

The idea that the Sturgeon cabal would give up their power post-Independence is laughable. Indeed the woman's ego is also so large that I wouldn't yet rule her out of an attempted return as leader. Why exactly would they split if Independence is achieved and they have a chance to dictate the terms of it?

 

 

[BFTD]

This really is becoming the ANGRY WALL OF TEXT thread.

 

[JS_FFC]

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

I do love the claim that the succession and establishment of the Republic of Ireland 102 years ago acts as a 'precedent' for how Scottish/rUK assets will be divided now. Did other countries which declared Independence from the UK Post 1922 get a share of assets?

Speaking of assets, from the SNP's own document 'Scotland's Future':

Scotland would be entitled to around £150 million allowing us to establish ourselves quickly and for little initial cost in our priority countries.

www.iflr.com

That is a share of UK Embassies

They also make a claim on military assets (based, of course on potential negotiations) for around a £7 billion share

Again from the SNP's own document The Growth Commission, the Solidarity Payments proposed to cover a share of UK liabilities are around £6 billion.

The Annual Solidarity Payment is modelled at around £5 billion, including debt servicing contributions, 0.7% GNP contribution for foreign aid and a further £1 billion set aside for other shared services, continued the report.

Spanish Veto

Still dependent upon who is in power in Spain at the time, you can't just cherrypick favoured Spanish voices of the moment and dismiss those who aren't 'on message'.

Public Sector Cuts

All there in the Growth Commission Report.Given that Kate Forbes was one of its architects, don't think that it's 'going away'

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/weak-public-finance-position-implies-more-austerity-independent-scotland

https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i307/gc_5_the_truth_about_austerity.aspx

The idea that the Sturgeon cabal would give up their power post-Independence is laughable. Indeed the woman's ego is also so large that I wouldn't yet rule her out of an attempted return as leader. Why exactly would they split if Independence is achieved and they have a chance to dictate the terms of it?

 

 

None of them were actually constituent countries of the UK though, were they? There’s a major difference between colonies and the position we are in. 

[lichtgilphead]

56 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

I do love the claim that the succession and establishment of the Republic of Ireland 102 years ago acts as a 'precedent' for how Scottish/rUK assets will be divided now. Did other countries which declared Independence from the UK Post 1922 get a share of assets?

What other integral part of the UK has left since 1922? I would also suggest that you look at the break-up of other countries. For example the USSR - Russia was considered the continuing state & took on the assets & liability of the USSR, just like the current UK did when Ireland left.

Your red herring about UK colonies declaring independence fails to take into account the fact that none of these colonies took on any of the UK's national debt. This supports my view, not yours.

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

Speaking of assets, from the SNP's own document 'Scotland's Future':

Scotland would be entitled to around £150 million allowing us to establish ourselves quickly and for little initial cost in our priority countries.

Your figures are at least 10 years out of date. Negotiations will relate to current values, not to estimates from over 10 years ago. As the UK continue to refuse to start negotiations, your attempt to put values on properties owned overseas are nonsensical.

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

Iwww.iflr.com

What is this random (non-working) link meant to prove? Scotland isn't even mentioned on the page you link to!

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

That is a share of UK Embassies

They also make a claim on military assets (based, of course on potential negotiations) for around a £7 billion share

Again from the SNP's own document The Growth Commission, the Solidarity Payments proposed to cover a share of UK liabilities are around £6 billion.

The Annual Solidarity Payment is modelled at around £5 billion, including debt servicing contributions, 0.7% GNP contribution for foreign aid and a further £1 billion set aside for other shared services, continued the report.

10 year out of date figures again. What's the relevance?

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

Spanish Veto

Still dependent upon who is in power in Spain at the time, you can't just cherrypick favoured Spanish voices of the moment and dismiss those who aren't 'on message'.

It was you that claimed that the Spanish would veto. I'm still waiting for your proof. Historical quotes from before Brexit or random non-Spanish opinions aren't proof.

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

Public Sector Cuts

All there in the Growth Commission Report.Given that Kate Forbes was one of its architects, don't think that it's 'going away'

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/weak-public-finance-position-implies-more-austerity-independent-scotland

https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i307/gc_5_the_truth_about_austerity.aspx

 

Why quote a specific report then not link to it?

Why quote a 6 year old pre-pandemic opinion on the potential effects of this approach?

Why quote a dog-food salesman's opinion from an uber-yoon website which doesn't appear to have been updated since 2020?

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

The idea that the Sturgeon cabal would give up their power post-Independence is laughable. Indeed the woman's ego is also so large that I wouldn't yet rule her out of an attempted return as leader. 

Pure speculation i.e. typical Jedi pish. 

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

Why exactly would they split if Independence is achieved and they have a chance to dictate the terms of it?

Whilst the SNP will negotiate terms if they are in power when a referendum is won, everyone (except you) believes that Independence will result in a total realignment of Scottish politics. New groupings will arise.

Do you honestly believe that Scottish Labour will continue to be controlled by Sir Keir after indy?