When will indyref2 happen?

[Burning Barns]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

1.  The priority is to get Independence.

2.  Only an SNP government (with support from the Greens) has any chance of achieving that.

3. Party politics in Scotland will sort itself out relatively soon after that and a PR system of voting will lead to a far more equitable and representative form of government.

4. Said government will be left-of-centre, progressive and inclusive IMO and will reflect the values that the majority of the  people of Scotland have been expressing for years.

5. It won’t be perfect.  Let’s not kid ourselves that it will be, but it will be far better than what we have.

Boris Johnson heading up a government that has such a key roll in how our lives are directed and that includes people like Patel, Raab and Mogg is an aberration.

 

I don't dispute any of your points, as things currently stand.  

My question is whether the current leadership of both parties truly have the necessary determination and resolve to take action on a referendum.  I think after successive unused mandates, this is a valid concern.  I guess only time will tell.  I just really hope we don't have to go through another Holyrood election in 2026, still under British rule, basically in the same circumstances as the last one.

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 hour ago, Day of the Lords said:

On 07/09/2021 at 18:34, Dawson Park Boy said:

Well, what disasters are you experiencing?

Probably your utterly shite posting.

Still not one proper response.

Just abuse but what else can you expect?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Just abuse but what else can you expect?

Given that you're a trolling right wing fantasist, not much else.

[Antlion]

2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Still not one proper response.

Just abuse but what else can you expect?

Probably because you’re asking people who didn’t write an article why the Brexit supporting paper which published it is claiming Brexit is bad.

Probably also because you choose to present yourself an “I’m alright, Jack” piss squirt, but that’s not really new. 

[Baxter Parp]

I sincerely hope to be proven wrong on this, but I believe independence supporters are being lead up a garden path.  I don't trust the SNP to deliver it, and their new coalition partners are even less interested in it than they are.

Your concern is duly noted.

"Urban Dictionary: concern troll" https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll&amp=true

[Burning Barns]

31 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Your concern is duly noted.

"Urban Dictionary: concern troll" https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll&amp=true
 

That genuinely is not what I am doing.  I've voted SNP at every election since I became eligible to, including in May.   

I'm completely sincere about my support for independence.  I'm sure the vast majority of people still involved with the SNP are, too. 

[RiG]

Another poll this time from Scotland in Union which found that just over a third of voters supported an independence referendum in the next two years.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,poll-majority-of-scots-opposed-to-second-independence-referendum-in-2023

[Granny Danger]

22 minutes ago, RiG said:

Another poll this time from Scotland in Union which found that just over a third of voters supported an independence referendum in the next two years.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,poll-majority-of-scots-opposed-to-second-independence-referendum-in-2023

Interesting, but the election of the SNP/Greens very recently on a clear mandate of IndyRef2 has far more validity IMO.

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, RiG said:

Another poll this time from Scotland in Union which found that just over a third of voters supported an independence referendum in the next two years.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,poll-majority-of-scots-opposed-to-second-independence-referendum-in-2023

Here's a link to Scot Goes Pop's predictions about this poll (published yesterday)

Remarkably accurate

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2021/09/some-predictions.html?m=1

[BigDoddyKane]

The only things that matters for the indy movement is having Indy2 when they will win it, be that in 2 years or whenever.  Losing indy2 would be a monumental feckup when everything at the moment points to a Yes vote. 

[RiG]

Another poll, this time commissioned by Sky (I think), which has Yes on 51% and No on 49%.

 

[Granny Danger]

9 minutes ago, RiG said:

Another poll, this time commissioned by Sky (I think), which has Yes on 51% and No on 49%.

 

Tories -4 

Labour -3 

Labour still behind the Tories. 

 

[Lurkst]

2 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

Here's a link to Scot Goes Pop's predictions about this poll (published yesterday)

Remarkably accurate

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2021/09/some-predictions.html?m=1

"The mainstream media will, as ever, disgrace themselves by "reporting the poll" with articles that are nothing more than very lightly rewritten versions of the Scotland in Union press release"

 

Nailed it!

 

[Burning Barns]

Is Scotland In Union not an "astroturf" organisation?  I.e, an invention of, most likely, British intelligence, fuelled by the bottomless pool of dark money provided by the ruling class to right-wing political causes?

Obviously, this is supposed to be the new, improved, Better Together.  I suppose some kind of framework will be needed to facilitate members of the Tories, Labour, Lib Dems, Britain First and the Orange Order to campaign alongside each other again.  

[Antlion]

8 hours ago, RiG said:

Another poll this time from Scotland in Union which found that just over a third of voters supported an independence referendum in the next two years.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,poll-majority-of-scots-opposed-to-second-independence-referendum-in-2023

Odd - I don’t recall pollsters being commissioned to ask people whether they wanted a referendum after Cameron had won a mandate to hold one. Polls on the outcome, yes, but on whether there should even be a referendum? Smacks of desperation and utter hatred for Scotland and its democratic processes.

[Burning Barns]

3 minutes ago, TheBruce said:

Not big on an indy tbh. Better Bojo came up with constitutional reform, as in a federal system, with all component parts of equal standing ie to include an English regional parliament, with the central federal parliament at the head. Seems to work well for the Germans. Not doing so will only leave indy on the agenda forever and more division and it's all become rather fucking tiresome.

There is next to no support for this idea, particularly in England, apart from a few Red Tory fantasists like Gordon Brown.  In Scotland, the organisation he represents are a spent force, teetering on the rim of the dustbin of history.  The Tories certainly would never "reform" the UK, the way you describe.  They want to take power away from Holyrood, not give us more.  They despise us.

 

[Theyellowbox]

24 minutes ago, TheBruce said:

Not big on an indy tbh. Better Bojo came up with constitutional reform, as in a federal system, with all component parts of equal standing ie to include an English regional parliament, with the central federal parliament at the head. Seems to work well for the Germans. Not doing so will only leave indy on the agenda forever and more division and it's all become rather fucking tiresome.

In theory, this is spot on, but I reality it would never happen. Ironically for unionists, it is the only way the union can survive, but it would mean the union as they view it would no longer exist.

Andy Burnham is very much for this idea, so could potentially become a Labour policy if/when he becomes leader.

Independence is better than current, but UK wide, a federal system would be a greater benefit to more... 

[git-intae-thum]

19 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

In theory, this is spot on, but I reality it would never happen. Ironically for unionists, it is the only way the union can survive, but it would mean the union as they view it would no longer exist.

Andy Burnham is very much for this idea, so could potentially become a Labour policy if/when he becomes leader.

Independence is better than current, but UK wide, a federal system would be a greater benefit to more... 

No it would not.

Who would still control monetary policy? 

Who would still control foreign policy?

No thanks.

 

 

[Burning Barns]

14 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

In theory, this is spot on, but I reality it would never happen. Ironically for unionists, it is the only way the union can survive, but it would mean the union as they view it would no longer exist.

Andy Burnham is very much for this idea, so could potentially become a Labour policy if/when he becomes leader.

Independence is better than current, but UK wide, a federal system would be a greater benefit to more... 

Alternatively, would it not be of even greater benefit to Scotland to be able to join EFTA as an interim measure, then the EU (27 countries), rather than still be locked into a "union", consisting of Wales, England and their historically seized Irish territory?

[git-intae-thum]

2 minutes ago, TheBruce said:

The current system is totally fucked up and has created nothing but division.

It's not the nats have the people of Scotland divided and at each other's throats, but that great Tory in Labour clothing named Blair who gave us this shit and Boris doing a great job of keeping it going. We will never prosper in this current system of devolution.

Politics was never an arena for fair paly and integrity, but these last twenty years have seen it nose dive to the depths of total dishonesty and corruption. There's not a party out there you could trust or vote for, that's if you could even work out what any of them stood for anymore. It's all self serving identity politics. The infrastructure of the whole of the UK is in crises. Governments and individuals alike burdened with record debt and no signs of ever getting out of it as costs rise and wages depressed, but the elite can turn in record profits, and not having to pay any tax for the privillage. The gap between the rich and poor widens every minute the clock ticks.

The future of the young mortgaged off. The new norm of offspring living with parents into their 30's. Can't get on the mortgage ladder as wages are so shit and not a council house to be had.

Yes a great reset is needed, just not the one governments have planned for us. Plutocracy rule ok!

......hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one."

That's the ending to this one right.