The Unionists are diminishing,

[Bishop Briggs]

Convincing stuff.

From a Hibs supporter!

[RedRob72]

Independence will NEVER be put to bed

Until it happens, obviously

Still think you're in for a long wait Sweetpea

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Come on now, you're jumping the shark a bit here. I know you're a brilliantly cynical free thinker but let's not get all Oaksoft about how those who chose a side came around to making that decision.

I've every confidence that the social media using, MSM distrusting generations are every bit as informed, open-minded and intellectually curious (if not more) than their parents or grandparents. I'd personally argue that the folk reading about losing their pension in the Record or their properties losing all value in The Times are the ones with sheep-like tendencies.

No I just think most voters are as thick as shite when it comes to the detail - it just seems easier to influence people these days using social media - less people reading papers and more getting their "news" from links from their friends.

Just look at the morons who were doing the "We wuz robbed" posts the day after, claiming there had been electoral fraud. If some of these people had a brain they'd be dangerous.

As for your response xbl - I am saying that many people on both sides voted on the basis of that is what their pals were doing.

Just a wee anecdote - I overheard a small group of S5/S6 pupils talking about how they were going to vote. One girl, nice lassie but not the brightest, said she was voting Yes - her pals were all No voters - 5 minutes later she says she is going to vote No. I sort of despair when that happens.

[AUFC90]

You are even thicker than I thought.

Euro-nationalism is European nationalism. It's an ideology which puts the interests of the EU over those of the Member States. It has nothing to do with the currency.

You are obviously another numpty who thinks that anyone who disagrees with the SNP is a Unionist of Britnat. No one is allowed disagree with Saint Sturgeon.

What a moron!

My question was in regards to you saying that we wanted our currency to be controlled by central bankers in Frankfurt. Who does ? Are we wanting to join the Euro ? Again... Stop talking shite.

[strichener]

What patronising and childish rubbish! You just can't answer those simple questions.

The Commission is responsible for administering the Treaties and the applications of new Member States. Reding put the position in writing but the SNP faithful refuse to even acknowledge it.

Most independence supporters on here just trot out the SNP's party line. They often refuse to address these difficult and complaex issues because they don't understand them.

You need to make up your mind. Either it is as simple as the statement you keep referring to OR it is a difficult and complex issue.

It can't be both....

[Ira Gaines]

RedRob72, on 26 Jul 2015 - 15:40, said:

[Bishop Briggs]

My question was in regards to you saying that we wanted our currency to be controlled by central bankers in Frankfurt. Who does ? Are we wanting to join the Euro ? Again... Stop talking shite.

Alex Salmond favoured joining the Euro until recently.

BBC in 2000.

"Jim Sillars made his attack as he prepared to join forces with former political adversary Sir Malcolm Rifkind for the launch of a Scottish campaign to save sterling.

The move is bad news for SNP leader Alex Salmond, who has said he is in favour of a taking an independent Scotland into the Euro at the earliest opportunity."

Reuters in 2011.

Salmond told BBC radio an independent Scotland would initially keep the pound, but joining the euro remained "a long-term possibility." He added that a switch to the euro would only happen "if economic conditions were right," and with the assent of the Scottish people. "We would only do it if you had a referendum, because it is a substantial change of constitutional position," he added.

I support the alternatives proposed by Jim Sillars - start a new Scottish currency and join EFTA instead of the EU.

“My view is that we should have our own currency, after a transition period from sterling. We wouldn’t have to necessarily wait that long after independence. We could build up a central bank that issued the Scottish currency, which could be called the dollar, so that we’re being modern, like Australia for example. We’ve got another 40, 50 or 60 years of oil left, so the currency would be based around oil. It’s tenable for countries like New Zealand and Norway to have their own currencies, so I don’t see why it can’t be for Scotland.”

Mr Sillars suggested an independent Scotland should join the European Free Trade Association (Efta), alongside nations such as Norway and Switzerland, rather than the “black hole” of the EU."

You will probably dismiss him, like me, as a Unionist.

[xbl.]

Sillars? He makes me look sane.

[Bishop Briggs]

Sillars? He makes me look sane.

Gordon Wilson shares Sillars' views on the EU.

[xbl.]

Gordon Wilson shares Sillars' views on the EU.

I literally have no idea who that is.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I literally have no idea who that is.

Ex-leader of the SNP - when they truly were Tartan Tories - involved in the expulsion of Salmond and others from the SNP.

[HardyBamboo]

I literally have no idea who that is.

Showing your age XBL, Gordon Wilson makes Sillars look sane.

[xbl.]

Ill not be taking this Wilson guy seriously then. I tend to ignore Sillers as well, he's a complete loonball who only gets a hearing because the Unionist media are desperate to try and discredit the independence cause.

There's a reason why he appears in the BBC and Telegraph so often. He's a puppet of the British.

[AUFC90]

Alex Salmond favoured joining the Euro until recently.

BBC in 2000.

"Jim Sillars made his attack as he prepared to join forces with former political adversary Sir Malcolm Rifkind for the launch of a Scottish campaign to save sterling.

The move is bad news for SNP leader Alex Salmond, who has said he is in favour of a taking an independent Scotland into the Euro at the earliest opportunity."

Reuters in 2011.

Salmond told BBC radio an independent Scotland would initially keep the pound, but joining the euro remained "a long-term possibility." He added that a switch to the euro would only happen "if economic conditions were right," and with the assent of the Scottish people. "We would only do it if you had a referendum, because it is a substantial change of constitutional position," he added.

I support the alternatives proposed by Jim Sillars - start a new Scottish currency and join EFTA instead of the EU.

“My view is that we should have our own currency, after a transition period from sterling. We wouldn’t have to necessarily wait that long after independence. We could build up a central bank that issued the Scottish currency, which could be called the dollar, so that we’re being modern, like Australia for example. We’ve got another 40, 50 or 60 years of oil left, so the currency would be based around oil. It’s tenable for countries like New Zealand and Norway to have their own currencies, so I don’t see why it can’t be for Scotland.”

Mr Sillars suggested an independent Scotland should join the European Free Trade Association (Efta), alongside nations such as Norway and Switzerland, rather than the “black hole” of the EU."

You will probably dismiss him, like me, as a Unionist.

So that's a no then.

[Bishop Briggs]

So that's a no then.

Salmond has wanted an independent Scotland to join the Euro for decades.

From the Herald in 1999 - "the SNP leader described the pound as ''a millstone round Scotland's neck....'I think that being outside the euro area is already penalising the Scottish economy. In the medium-term, the longer we stay out, the more damage will accumulate. The euro is an example of why Scotland needs membership status so that it can take a decision on entry into the single currency''

Salmond only changed his tune when it was clear that the Euro was unpopular with the voters. His u-turn has been nothing short of amazing. Frankly, I don't believe his or the SNP's commitment to a keeping the Pound, either through a currency union or Sterlingisation.

Joining the Euro is a condition of EU membership under the current Treaties. Only Britain and Denmark have opt-outs. The other Member States who are not in the Euro must join after meeting the convergence criteria.

if Scotland leaves the UK, it loses the opt-out or would have to gain one through a Treaty amendment. Such an amendment would also be required if an independent Scotland applied to join after the UK had left. It would need the unanimous approval of all the Member States, including the UK if it votes to stay in.

[strichener]

Salmond has wanted an independent Scotland to join the Euro for decades.

From the Herald in 1999 - "the SNP leader described the pound as ''a millstone round Scotland's neck....'I think that being outside the euro area is already penalising the Scottish economy. In the medium-term, the longer we stay out, the more damage will accumulate. The euro is an example of why Scotland needs membership status so that it can take a decision on entry into the single currency''

Salmond only changed his tune when it was clear that the Euro was unpopular with the voters. His u-turn has been nothing short of amazing. Frankly, I don't believe his or the SNP's commitment to a keeping the Pound, either through a currency union or Sterlingisation.

Joining the Euro is a condition of EU membership under the current Treaties. Only Britain and Denmark have opt-outs. The other Member States who are not in the Euro must join after meeting the convergence criteria.

if Scotland leaves the UK, it loses the opt-out or would have to gain one through a Treaty amendment. Such an amendment would also be required if an independent Scotland applied to join after the UK had left. It would need the unanimous approval of all the Member States, including the UK if it votes to stay in.

Rehash of old arguments here. There is no time limit on this "commitment" which then makes it no commitment at all.

[AUFC90]

Salmond has wanted an independent Scotland to join the Euro for decades.

From the Herald in 1999 - "the SNP leader described the pound as ''a millstone round Scotland's neck....'I think that being outside the euro area is already penalising the Scottish economy. In the medium-term, the longer we stay out, the more damage will accumulate. The euro is an example of why Scotland needs membership status so that it can take a decision on entry into the single currency''

Salmond only changed his tune when it was clear that the Euro was unpopular with the voters. His u-turn has been nothing short of amazing. Frankly, I don't believe his or the SNP's commitment to a keeping the Pound, either through a currency union or Sterlingisation.

Joining the Euro is a condition of EU membership under the current Treaties. Only Britain and Denmark have opt-outs. The other Member States who are not in the Euro must join after meeting the convergence criteria.

if Scotland leaves the UK, it loses the opt-out or would have to gain one through a Treaty amendment. Such an amendment would also be required if an independent Scotland applied to join after the UK had left. It would need the unanimous approval of all the Member States, including the UK if it votes to stay in.

I know all this. What it has to do with your previous assertions only you will know.

ETA . There's nothing to force Scotland adopting the Euro. That's a complete myth. How long has Poland been in the EU ? Surely they would have met the convergence criteria by now. Or Czech Republic?

Scotland would have used the pound, currency union or not, until such time that we set up our own and guess what ? We'd still be in the EU.

[AMMjag]

'Euro nationalism'

I'm betting Bishop Bore has been hanging about the same kind of bizarre, tin foil hat blogs as lunatics like Reynard/Redrob/Lex.

[Fotbawmad]

Salmond has wanted an independent Scotland to join the Euro for decades.

From the Herald in 1999 - "the SNP leader described the pound as ''a millstone round Scotland's neck....'I think that being outside the euro area is already penalising the Scottish economy. In the medium-term, the longer we stay out, the more damage will accumulate. The euro is an example of why Scotland needs membership status so that it can take a decision on entry into the single currency''

Salmond only changed his tune when it was clear that the Euro was unpopular with the voters. His u-turn has been nothing short of amazing. Frankly, I don't believe his or the SNP's commitment to a keeping the Pound, either through a currency union or Sterlingisation.

Joining the Euro is a condition of EU membership under the current Treaties. Only Britain and Denmark have opt-outs. The other Member States who are not in the Euro must join after meeting the convergence criteria.

if Scotland leaves the UK, it loses the opt-out or would have to gain one through a Treaty amendment. Such an amendment would also be required if an independent Scotland applied to join after the UK had left. It would need the unanimous approval of all the Member States, including the UK if it votes to stay in.

There's nothing wrong with changing your stance on certain issues over time. I remember being in favour of joining the Euro in the late 90's early 00's, but by 05/06 I was against it. After realizing what it had become. Constantly changing your stance to suit whatever situation is bad, but being rigid in your stance even when it's become untenable is equally as bad.

[TapothehullDee]

Stop beating about the bush on this subject, the Titanic will sail into New York before Scotland becomes independant. No one alive today will live to see Scotland become independant, odds on Scotland going it alone in next 50 years, 5000-1/