SGMilne Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Has Zwick not got the highest potential of a keeper in Scotland? No, there's a kid at Rangers with higher potential. You have to remember that potential is linked to age. A player can only improve so much based upon his age and his current ability. Zwick is the youngest keeper playing in the top flight so by FM standards has the potential to go furthest based on his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Probably. Celtic binned Bain for him on my save. How anyone could realistically come up with zwick being better than Bain after a bit of pre season and early form this season completely beggars belief. I call it "the Utd factor" - no matter who I'm manager of I scout their youth intake every single season. Bain is better than Zwick in the game. The fact that you have Celtic binning Bain for him suggests you're not in season 1 anymore, so it's not a comparison that can really be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deefiant Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Bain is better than Zwick in the game. The fact that you have Celtic binning Bain for him suggests you're not in season 1 anymore, so it's not a comparison that can really be made. I'm into season 4. Surely there is a comparison in the fact that Zwicks PA is evidently too high if he's finding himself in the Celtic goal? Especially considering his horrific start to the season and the complete lack of knowledge of him from anyone prior to this seasons kick off. ETA the point RG was making was based on PA, not ability at the start of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I'm into season 4. Surely there is a comparison in the fact that Zwicks PA is evidently too high if he's finding himself in the Celtic goal? Especially considering his horrific start to the season and the complete lack of knowledge of him from anyone prior to this seasons kick off. ETA the point RG was making was based on PA, not ability at the start of the game. No, not at all. You're saying a guy who was already starting games for a Premiership side at the age of 21 has no scope to continue to improve over 4 years? There's a difference between improving to play for Man City in 4 years and playing for Celtic considering the current ability gap between a medium non-Celtic SPFL player and a medium Celtic player is only 15-20 points. The real life one would be Scott Bain. 4 years ago he was released from Aberdeen and had signed for Alloa in the bottom tier. If he was getting Scotland callups in season 4 in FM12, you'd probably say that was unrealistic too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deefiant Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 No, not at all. You're saying a guy who was already starting games for a Premiership side at the age of 21 has no scope to continue to improve over 4 years? There's a difference between improving to play for Man City in 4 years and playing for Celtic considering the current ability gap between a medium non-Celtic SPFL player and a medium Celtic player is only 15-20 points. The real life one would be Scott Bain. 4 years ago he was released from Aberdeen and had signed for Alloa in the bottom tier. If he was getting Scotland callups in season 4 in FM11, you'd probably say that was unrealistic too. I don't think Louis zwick will ever be as good as Scott Bain is currently, never mind as good as Scott Bain could be. Just because he's playing first team football in the premiership at 21 doesn't mean he's ready for it. I think most Arabs would agree he isn't. What are both players PA's? One is a 24 year old with 1 year of premiership experience on top of 3 years of 1st team football who has made a Scotland squad. The other is an ex amateur playing his first senior games at age 21. ETA not trying to be a dick but probably failing. Sorry. I do appreciate the work you and the researchers do, and appreciate it can't be easy and you can't please everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I finished 14th with Leicester in my first season and was linked with the vacant Arsenal, AC Milan and Schalke jobs lol. I went to Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth_Glasgow Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I've never moved on from my long-time save in FM13 but I was planning to finally catch up and by this. Would you guys recommend buying FM16 just now, and if so what are the main changes they've made over the last couple of games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't think Louis zwick will ever be as good as Scott Bain is currently, never mind as good as Scott Bain could be. Just because he's playing first team football in the premiership at 21 doesn't mean he's ready for it. I think most Arabs would agree he isn't. What are both players PA's? One is a 24 year old with 1 year of premiership experience on top of 3 years of 1st team football who has made a Scotland squad. The other is an ex amateur playing his first senior games at age 21. ETA not trying to be a dick but probably failing. Sorry. I do appreciate the work you and the researchers do, and appreciate it can't be easy and you can't please everyone! Scott Bain - 116/130 Zwick - 110/138 So it's not a significant difference. All Premiership keepers... Craig Gordon - 136/147 Scott Bain - 116/130 Logan Bailly 115/140 Michael McGovern - 113/116 Allan Mannus - 113/117 Scott Brown - 111/114 Daniel Ward - 110/138 Jamie MacDonald - 109/115 Neil Alexander - 107/125 Owan fon Williams - 105/125 Tomas Cerny - 105/120 Dean Brill - 104/115 Craig Samson - 100/105 Zander Clark - 100/118 David Mitchell - 98/102 Danny Rogers - 96/120 Ryan Esson - 95/120 Dan Twardzik - 95/120 Ryan Scully - 94/110 Leo Fasan - 93/122 Paul Gallacher - 93/120 In terms of current ability, is Luis Zwick overrated? Yes he is. I absolutely hold my hands up to that, and I did try to get it changed in the data update they did before the game's full release, and have already dropped it to the level of Zander Clark. In terms of potential ability is he overrated? I don't think you can say that. He's a young keeper who it was generally agreed at the time (and still is, despite being dropped) has potential. His absolute maximum potential, if everything went right for him would see him be a player at QPR level. I don't think that's too ridiculous. Anyway, the main thing that stands out there is that Paul Gallacher is probably rated too low. edit: Actually, so is Craig Gordon considering Allan McGregor has 147 edit: Ignore that; I'm talking shite about McGregor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deefiant Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Scott Bain - 116/130 Zwick - 110/138 So it's not a significant difference. All Premiership keepers... Craig Gordon - 136/147 Scott Bain - 116/130 Logan Bailly 115/140 Michael McGovern - 113/116 Allan Mannus - 113/117 Scott Brown - 111/114 Daniel Ward - 110/138 Jamie MacDonald - 109/115 Neil Alexander - 107/125 Owan fon Williams - 105/125 Tomas Cerny - 105/120 Dean Brill - 104/115 Craig Samson - 100/105 Zander Clark - 100/118 David Mitchell - 98/102 Danny Rogers - 96/120 Ryan Esson - 95/120 Dan Twardzik - 95/120 Ryan Scully - 94/110 Leo Fasan - 93/122 Paul Gallacher - 93/120 In terms of current ability, is Luis Zwick overrated? Yes he is. I absolutely hold my hands up to that, and I did try to get it changed in the data update they did before the game's full release, and have already dropped it to the level of Zander Clark. In terms of potential ability is he overrated? I don't think you can say that. He's a young keeper who it was generally agreed at the time (and still is, despite being dropped) has potential. His absolute maximum potential, if everything went right for him would see him be a player at QPR level. I don't think that's too ridiculous. Anyway, the main thing that stands out there is that Paul Gallacher is probably rated too low. edit: Actually, so is Craig Gordon considering Allan McGregor has 147 edit: Ignore that; I'm talking shite about McGregor. Not being funny but find me a person who thinks zwick will progress further than Scott Bain and I'll find you a liar. That CA and PA for zwick is way off and surely was based on nothing more than Jackies word on how good he was as no-one had seen him really, and if they did and thought he was that good / could exceed Bains potential then I despair. I'll put it down to "the Utd factor" whereby anyone at Utd simply has to be better than Dundee have even if just a little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Zwick is miles over rated in both CA and PA, and no matter how you try and worm your way out of it, its a common theme with United players. Its an absolute joke you can rate someone with 12 senior games to his name as one of the brightest prospects in the country purely because "hes young for a keeper" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
port-ton Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Not being funny but find me a person who thinks zwick will progress further than Scott Bain and I'll find you a liar. That CA and PA for zwick is way off and surely was based on nothing more than Jackies word on how good he was as no-one had seen him really, and if they did and thought he was that good / could exceed Bains potential then I despair. I'll put it down to "the Utd factor" whereby anyone at Utd simply has to be better than Dundee have even if just a little You could have played another 4 seasons and signed a team full of players better than Utd's during the time you've spent arguing over minimal difference Dundee vs Utd comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deefiant Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 You could have played another 4 seasons and signed a team full of players better than Utd's during the time you've spent arguing over minimal difference Dundee vs Utd comparisons. Not at work I couldn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 It's so easy to critique any team or player in the game ,but until you have seen what Is involved in working out player stats etc, you have no idea how much work goes into it. Yes I dare say most researchers have had a disagreement over a multitude of things with Stuart ,but being brutally honest, for us Scottish FM players and fans, we are lucky we have someone with so much attention to detail sailing the ship.it's a thankless task . Credit to the researchers !! It really is. Maybe thats why its so difficult to get people to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Like Gareth_Glasgow asked a few posts back what are the general thoughts on the game overall? I know everyone is sharing what games they have been starting with and playing but how good is Football Manager this year compared to other years? What are the particular improvements (if there are any)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Zwick is miles over rated in both CA and PA, and no matter how you try and worm your way out of it, its a common theme with United players. Its an absolute joke you can rate someone with 12 senior games to his name as one of the brightest prospects in the country purely because "hes young for a keeper" I'm not worming my way out of anything. I stand by his PA, I accept his CA was overrated. His PA is based upon his age; that's how PA works,. But to suggest it's a common theme with United players specifically isn't true. I've just loaded up my database from August 2013 and had a look at players with high potential in the Premiership - or potential to go on to play at a higher level than an SPFL Premiership club. For United there's... Ryan Gauld John Souttar Gary Mackay Steven Stuart Armstrong Gavin Gunning Keith Watson Nadir Ciftci Darren Petrie If I was to take Kilmarnock as an example of another club with players rated with similar potential then you've got... Rory McKenzie William Gros Jeroen Tesselaar Rabiu Ibrahim Gary Fisher Craig Slater Chris Johnston Jude Winchester Ross Barbour Rory McKeown Robbie Muirhead Mark O'Hara (rated with a potential the same as Ryan Gauld) At Inverness there was Aaron Doran Connor Pepper Nick Ross Liam Polworth At Hearts Jason Holt Danny Wilson Scott Robinson Dylan McGowan Adam King Callum Tapping Jordan McGhee Sam Nicholson Jamie Walker Mark Ridgers Jack Hamilton David Smith Brad McKay Billy King Callum Paterson Kevin McHattie At Motherwell Shaun Hutchison Iain Vigurs Stewart Carswell Adam Cummins And so on. Of those lists, it's undeniable that more United players moved up a level than the players from other clubs. I got some wrong, I get stuff wrong every year, and so do other researchers. We're not clairvoyants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Your judgement on Zwick was absolutely shockingly optimistic. Both in terms of CA and in PA. I think it's undeniable you have a tendency to make United better on all fronts regardless of what's going on. There's absolutely nothing to suggest and there never has been that Zwick would ever be as good as Bain as now never mind higher potential. United always seem to have 3-4 players that go for mega, mega bucks. For example, John Souttar was regularly courted by Man U, Chelsea and Man City. He was the Mark Kerr of last years game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Pleasing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris. Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Won 2-1 at Dundee United on the final day to secure a top three finish. Oh, and won the Scottish Cup as well... I shitfested my way to the final, needing a replay to see off Partick in the 4th Round, a replay to knock out Hearts in the 5th Round, a replay (and penalties) to beat Inverness in the Quarters, then penalties to beat St Johnstone in the Semi Final, and finally extra-time to beat Celtic to win the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Finally bit the bullet - couldn't wait til christmas to get this, going to ask for Fallout 4 instead and some other bits and bobs. Started, as always on FM, with Thistle. Drew 1-1 against my youth team then 2-2 with dunfermline - had me worried but as fitness/tactics familiarity improved through preseason I improved to shitfest a 1-0 win over Accies in my first competitive game. Signed Areias, Marcus Ingvartsen and Cammy Smith (on a recommendation from here) on loan to give a bit more depth in AMC/ST and opted to just tie up the bulk of the existing squad on longer term deals. Got a 3 1/2* current ability left back from Norway who I like the look of coming in permanently in January to give Booth some competition since he's the only real recognised left-back at the club, but beyond that my starting wage budget, though broadly in line with last years, didn't have much room for bringing players in on account of Thistle having slightly higher wages for certain players than before/more players on circa £1000 a week. Any good players I brought in on trial w/ 4* CA or slightly lower all wanted far, far more than I could realistically afford. Might be a bit tricky to get used to but it's scratching that FM itch so far. Got 3 players out with long term injuries (Sean Welsh with a broken leg which, tbf, given his injury proneness is fair enough, Christie Elliot who is injured in real life for a good wee while, and Areias who went off after 2 minutes of the Hamilton game and is out for 7 weeks, hmph - he was match fit too...) Only 3 centre-halfs I trust, will need to try to find a good cheap centre back since one injury there and I'm boned in terms of resting my central defense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwad Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 http://www.mediafire.com/download/95aj5nw425c8aqn/Update_13.11.2015_2D2ABC3B-B55A-493B-9485-8122AD935318.fmfHere's a wee fix to some Scottish issues in FM16 so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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