Wee-Bey Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 2 seats Jeremy ? 2 ? That's insane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 The fact Boris is still polling equal to both Cameron's wins despite the pandemic is pretty depressing. As mentioned above politics has been removed from politics and now it's pretty much just about identity and language. There was a period at the start of pandemic when it looked like attitudes to public spending might shift but that has been well truly forgotten about now and it'll be back to the necessity of austerity from Boris, Keir and Nicola (via SGC) as soon as the vaccines are distributed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Lib Dems have suffered an astonishing slump from where they were in 2005 right enough. For any party to so completely misread public opinion, both in 2010 and again in 2019. They had a great opportunity in 2010 to influence parliament by not going into coalition with the Tories. Rather, they could have been power brokers, exerting pressure on the Tories from the 'outside'. Only voting with them when it was in the best interests of the country, and voting with Labour when that was more suitable. It could well have dampened austerity, as the Tories would have been running as a minority govt, and wouldn't have to been able to get their austerity budgets through. The Libs would then have been in a much stronger position electorally in 2015. Then again in 2019 when it was a Brexit election, to enter it promising to revoke Article 50 without even a 2nd Ref, was madness, making them appear undemocratic in the eyes of the public. They have now shown themselves to be too untrustworthy to command any public support...unable to break through with 'Remainers' and still not forgotten for enabling the Tories to do their worst from 2010-15.No way back for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jedi said: Lib Dems have suffered an astonishing slump from where they were in 2005 right enough. For any party to so completely misread public opinion, both in 2010 and again in 2019. They had a great opportunity in 2010 to influence parliament by not going into coalition with the Tories. Rather, they could have been power brokers, exerting pressure on the Tories from the 'outside'. Only voting with them when it was in the best interests of the country, and voting with Labour when that was more suitable. It could well have dampened austerity, as the Tories would have been running as a minority govt, and wouldn't have to been able to get their austerity budgets through. The Libs would then have been in a much stronger position electorally in 2015. Then again in 2019 when it was a Brexit election, to enter it promising to revoke Article 50 without even a 2nd Ref, was madness, making them appear undemocratic in the eyes of the public. They have now shown themselves to be too untrustworthy to command any public support...unable to break through with 'Remainers' and still not forgotten for enabling the Tories to do their worst from 2010-15.No way back for them. In 2005, the Lib Dems got votes from Labour supporters who opposed the Iraq War. Maybe they got votes from Tory voters who opposed the Iraq War as well. You are right. In 2010, they could have done to David Cameron what the DUP did to Theresa May. The DUP continued to sit on the opposition benches throughout while Nick Clegg was quite happy to sit on David Cameron's knee. Nothing about the coalition benefitted the Lib Dems at all. They were seen as too cosy with the Tories while David Cameron was quite happy to undermine them, such as his attack on any change to the voting system. IMO whenever somebody is asked how they will vote, they will answer as if the next question is "why?" At the moment, I can't think of a possible answer to that one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Fun fact, his Mrs is the one being sung about in Pulp's Common People. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: 23 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: Fun fact, his Mrs is the one being sung about in Pulp's Common People. Is this another one of those facts that are just made up or is it verifiable? I'll answer my own question. Greek finance minister responds to claim that wife was inspiration behind Pulp hit | Pulp | The Guardian Edited January 3, 2021 by Suspect Device 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Fullerene said: You are right. In 2010, they could have done to David Cameron what the DUP did to Theresa May. The DUP continued to sit on the opposition benches throughout while Nick Clegg was quite happy to sit on David Cameron's knee. Nothing about the coalition benefitted the Lib Dems at all. They were seen as too cosy with the Tories while David Cameron was quite happy to undermine them, such as his attack on any change to the voting system. A cynic might suggest that the idea was for individuals to benefit from being part of an actual government, with all the contacts and influence that brings. Certainly makes more sense than anything else about that inglorious outing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 9 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: 2 seats Jeremy ? 2 ? That's insane. In fairness, that 11% in a national poll could turn into 2 seats is a clear sign of the utter ridiculousness of our electoral system. They should be over 60 seats. It's indefensible. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 minute ago, GordonS said: In fairness, that 11% in a national poll could turn into 2 seats is a clear sign of the utter ridiculousness of our electoral system. They should be over 60 seats. It's indefensible. Nah people that vote Lib Dem deserve f**k all. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, GordonS said: In fairness, that 11% in a national poll could turn into 2 seats is a clear sign of the utter ridiculousness of our electoral system. They should be over 60 seats. It's indefensible. 11% for the Lib Dems these days is utterly indefensible, I agree. The major downside to PR would be seeing terrible Commons diatribes from Farage on the news every night. Although charting Widdecombe losing her mind would be great. Spoiler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, BFTD said: 11% for the Lib Dems these days is utterly indefensible, I agree. The major downside to PR would be seeing terrible Commons diatribes from Farage on the news every night. Although charting Widdecombe losing her mind would be great. Hide contents That looks like the unholy offspring which would have resulted had Jimmy Savile managed to impregnate one of the corpses he diddled in the early sixties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 The comments section for this Herald article makes Daily Mail and Daily Express readers look like flaming liberals. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18983683.nicola-sturgeon-address-recalled-holyrood-raising-prospect-tougher-anti-covid-measures-scotland/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 13 hours ago, Detournement said: Nah people that vote Lib Dem deserve f**k all. You're either for democracy or you're not. In 2010 the SNP got 6 seats in Scotland while the Lib Dems got 11, though the parties got very similar numbers of votes. That pattern had been typical since 1983. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 hours ago, GordonS said: You're either for democracy or you're not. In 2010 the SNP got 6 seats in Scotland while the Lib Dems got 11, though the parties got very similar numbers of votes. That pattern had been typical since 1983. Then I guess we're not for democracy! f**k Lib Dem voters. All my homies hate Lib Dem voters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, GordonS said: You're either for democracy or you're not. In 2010 the SNP got 6 seats in Scotland while the Lib Dems got 11, though the parties got very similar numbers of votes. That pattern had been typical since 1983. Democracy's not an absolute thing, there's a lot to be said for representative democracy where a constituency decides by majority who they want to represent them. I'm not keen on my second vote in the Holyrood election not counting in many cases, even when there's more of them for the party I want than any other. Edited January 4, 2021 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 3 hours ago, welshbairn said: Democracy's not an absolute thing, there's a lot to be said for representative democracy where a constituency decides by majority who they want to represent them. I'm not keen on my second vote in the Holyrood election not counting in many cases, even when there's more of them for the party I want than any other. Constituencies are arbitrary, and PR is representative democracy too. Is it really more important to have an MP representing a constituency than a government representing a country? Anyway, multi-member seats or AMS allows a constituency link while still making who actually runs the country reasonably representative. It's more directly representative than FPTP too, because the majority of the electorate didn't vote for their MP and know fine well that their MP isn't interested in their opinions. In the last general election in Scotland, 54% of the electorate voted for unionist candidates but over 80% of the population have a pro-independence MP. Is there any point in them writing to their MP to push for things like a UK approach to replacing EU structural funds? SNP supporters used to be among the first to support PR. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Sorry lads, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it turns out, as well as not liking sucking cock, if you piss standing up you are also a bigot. You are not being inclusive of trans men who cannot piss standing up. Show some solidarity you disgusting TERFs or we will hound you off all forms of social media and harass your employer until they fire you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 How many bigots here? I have to hold my hands up and say I've been metaphorically pissing all over trans rights for decades with my shocking ignorance. Have never been partial to a bit of cock either, so I should really go and stick my head in the oven. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Sorry lads, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it turns out, as well as not liking sucking cock, if you piss standing up you are also a bigot. You are not being inclusive of trans men who cannot piss standing up. Show some solidarity you disgusting TERFs or we will hound you off all forms of social media and harass your employer until they fire you. Sounds great, more folk sitting on public toilets is what we need to get R below one and this virus finally under control. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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