Casagolda Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 hour ago, 0Neils40yarder said: What made you pick their names out...there are literally a dozen that I'd happily run out of town Me too. However I was thinking about Robinson’s summer signings from his own perspective, not my own. O’Hara has started every game this season. O’Donnell has started every game since he’s been here. Lang has started 7 games on the spin. Lamie keeps getting back into the team. White must be our most used sub. Whatever we think of these guys, I can only assume they must be doing something for Robinson cause he keeps on picking them. So given they were both pretty big players for Robinson in their previous spells and both have have become fairly peripheral figures of late, that’s why I leaned towards Long/Hastie as the most likely candidates. Long was first pick at the start of the season but has only started 3 of the 8 matches since Cole’s been back(2 of which when Cole wasn’t fit) and was the first player hooked in all 3 games- he didn’t even last an hour against St Mirren last week. Hastie hasn't started a game since August and has hardly been involved since- with Robinson basically questioning his fitness levels up to that point after the St Mirren game. I could be miles out of course but in terms of Robinson’s expectations(not mine) to what’s been delivered so far this season, I’d say they’d be his two biggest disappointments of the summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: This is maybe a bit Stockholm Syndromey but I actually... quite enjoy having a manager that's seemingly hell bent on trying out every formation and tactical set up known to man for at least half a season each? It's probably bound to go disastrously badly eventually but it's a good laugh knowing we're never more than a few months away from seeing half the team emptied at any given moment. I mean it's never dull. Start of a new season normally people have an idea of what to expect. Are we going to play 3 at the back and kick someone to death? Are we going to play slick passing football and sign wingers that nutmeg folk for fun? Are we about to unearth some unknown talent who turns out to be the best player in the league? Are we going to be absolute dugmeat? Who knows!? Not me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 43 minutes ago, well fan for life said: The fact we've seen Robinson blow his whole plan up and start again before gives me a bit of confidence and I am very much against sacking him. We've transitioned from Thunderdome to Sexy Motherwell v1.0 before. Now hopefully we can jump from Meh-therwell to Functioning Football Team. The problem is that this time around we don't have a Jake Hastie with a point to prove to help get him a big move and a genuinely quality player in David Turnbull waiting in the wings to make that transition for that to happen. Instead we have a squad choked up with dross that would struggle to hold down a starting position in League 1 and no-one of note in our youth squads so I really don't think Robinson will 'luck out' as much this time around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Casagolda said: Me too. However I was thinking about Robinson’s summer signings from his own perspective, not my own. O’Hara has started every game this season. O’Donnell has started every game since he’s been here. Lang has started 7 games on the spin. Lamie keeps getting back into the team. White must be our most used sub. Whatever we think of these guys, I can only assume they must be doing something for Robinson cause he keeps on picking them. So given they were both pretty big players for Robinson in their previous spells and both have have become fairly peripheral figures of late, that’s why I leaned towards Long/Hastie as the most likely candidates. Long was first pick at the start of the season but has only started 3 of the 8 matches since Cole’s been back(2 of which when Cole wasn’t fit) and was the first player hooked in all 3 games- he didn’t even last an hour against St Mirren last week. Hastie hasn't started a game since August and has hardly been involved since- with Robinson basically questioning his fitness levels up to that point after the St Mirren game. I could be miles out of course but in terms of Robinson’s expectations(not mine) to what’s been delivered so far this season, I’d say they’d be his two biggest disappointments of the summer. Aye, it's not a massive leap to take. Both Long and Hastie were clearly brought in to be first team players that should be clear to anyone. They started the season in the starting XI and both had a history at the club that Robinson could lean on. They both look miles aff it. Whatever you think of White or Lamie I'd be confident in saying that there's no chance Robinson was bringing them in with a view to be regularly starting games. Without going full stats nonce Long's involvement in the games he's started has been negligible - now some of that may be on Robinson and persisting with using him in a system that wasn't working for him but equally it's the same formation we used last season and he was our joint top scorer. According to WhoScored Long had 17 touches against St Mirren, that's the lowest of any Motherwell player who started the game by a distance. It's been a consistent thing this season too - go back to the United game at Fir Park he had 15 touches the only Motherwell player who had lower was Hastie on 12. Even the Aberdeen game where we were 352 (and he scored) he had the fewest touches of anyone in the starting XI. Edited December 22, 2020 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) What the f**k are we playing at? Did Celtic and Dundee United not get a boot in the baws for this about a week ago? Edit-okay nevermind I've jumped the gun a wee bit Edited December 22, 2020 by YassinMoutaouakil 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallus Numpty Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: Edit-okay nevermind I've jumped the gun a wee bit For anyone who hasn't seen the follow-up tweet... Edited December 22, 2020 by Gallus Numpty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianfranco Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Imagine signing 5 keepers just so they fill the tree part of the seats. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, capt_oats said: According to WhoScored Long had 17 touches against St Mirren, that's the lowest of any Motherwell player who started the game by a distance. It's been a consistent thing this season too Not especially relevant, but our CF generally has the lowest touches of any player aswell. We've had games where May has played something daft like 6 passes in 80 minutes, so its maybe a league wide phenomenon rather than something to do with Long? FWIW, while I'm here, I've started the boring process of CB ratings now. Gallagher last season obviously your best (so far), from 17/18_20/21, Tam Aldred 17/18 runs him close though... Aldred then absolutely plummets in 18/19 (was he with you all season or just half? Might have made a mistake if he left early). Ricki Lamie 18/19 sits at the second worst CB in the entire system... Edited December 22, 2020 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 For anyone who hasn't seen the follow-up tweet... Feels a bit weird to do this when you literally take a team photo on the pitch before every single game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Not especially relevant, but our CF generally has the lowest touches of any player aswell. We've had games where May has played something daft like 6 passes in 80 minutes, so its maybe a league wide phenomenon rather than something to do with Long? FWIW, while I'm here, I've started the boring process of CB ratings now. Gallagher last season obviously your best (so far), from 17/18_20/21, Tam Aldred 17/18 runs him close though... Aldred then absolutely plummets in 18/19 (was he with you all season or just half? Might have made a mistake if he left early). Ricki Lamie 18/19 sits at the second worst CB in the entire system... How were Kipre's numbers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Not especially relevant, but our CF generally has the lowest touches of any player aswell. We've had games where May has played something daft like 6 passes in 80 minutes, so its maybe a league wide phenomenon rather than something to do with Long? See I thought that as well but if you compare to the 433 against County. Long started the game...he had 7 touches, he was subbed off after 62 mins and replaced by Lang who had 14 in his 28 mins on the park. If you compare the following week against Livi. Still a 433 but this time Lang, Watt and Cole. Cole has the fewest touches = 12 but he was subbed at H/T because of injury. So he still had more touches (marginally) in a half than Long managed in an hour the previous week. I totally get that there may be tactical reasons that explain it and a player can have a ton of value without being on the ball but it's just weird that I've screenshot 4 separate games at different points in the season with the manager using different formations and he's had the fewest touches of anyone in the starting XI in each one and in some cases the player subbed on in his place has more in a shorter time. Edited December 22, 2020 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: How were Kipre's numbers? He's your 3rd best. Not finished yet so scores should change/compress, but Kipre gets 7.6/10 (32nd best out of 130), Aldred 17/18 gets 8.3 (rank:23), and Gallagher last season gets 9.2 (rank: 11). Kipre is slightly below league average aerially, but elite, almost the best, in terms of reading the game and intercepting. Bang on average for passing ability. Might sound harsh but this include 3/4 versions of Ajer, for example, so who pretty much strolls into the top couple positions in everything and pushes the average up. Might create a "non-OF" average tbh. 6 minutes ago, capt_oats said: See I thought that as well but if you compare to the 433 against County. Long started the game...he had 7 touches, he was subbed off after 62 mins and replaced by Lang who had 14 in his 28 mins on the park. If you compare the following week against Livi. Still a 433 but this time Lang, Watt and Cole. Cole has the fewest touches = 12 but he was subbed at H/T because of injury. So he still had more touches (marginally) in a half than Long managed in an hour the previous week. I totally get that there may be tactical reasons that explain it and a player can have a ton of value without being on the ball but it's just weird that I've screenshot 4 separate games at different points in the season with the manager using different formations and he's had the fewest touches of anyone in the starting XI and in some cases the player subbed on in his place has more in a shorter time. Fair dues, was just a quick thought from memory of our figures to do with this. You'd probably have to watch the games back to "player cam" him, and see why he's not touching it I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylegsjoe_mfc Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 I know he had a relatively product evening against Glentoran with a goal and being involved in the build up to another two, but domestically, other than the goal Lewis put on a plate, I can’t actually remember him doing anything of note domestically this season. Like, I’m genuinely struggling to think of him playing a good pass, beating his man, even getting into a good position. I know I’ve made my #numberpolis feelings clear in the past, but the number 99 thing does really annoy me as well. If you’ve thought you’d get a better move to the point that your number has been given away by the time you sign your deal, just take the next number in the 20s or 30s and get on with it. I did like Long last season, but I’d more than happily see the back of him when the window opens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: FWIW, while I'm here, I've started the boring process of CB ratings now. Gallagher last season obviously your best (so far), from 17/18_20/21, Tam Aldred 17/18 runs him close though... Aldred then absolutely plummets in 18/19 (was he with you all season or just half? Might have made a mistake if he left early). Ricki Lamie 18/19 sits at the second worst CB in the entire system... Aldred was with us half a season 17/18 and the full season 18/19 although the first half of that season we struggled after continuing the 352 before transitioning to Sexy Motherwell v1.0 after the winter break when Ariyibi and Hastie started doing their thing in the 433. IIRC Hartley didn't play a minute after the Ross County Scottish Cup debacle. The CB pairing in the 433 was largely Aldred and Dunne. Edited December 22, 2020 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 minute ago, capt_oats said: Aldred was with us half a season 17/18 and the full season 18/19 although the first half of that season we struggled after continuing the 352 from previous season before transitioning to Sexy Motherwell v1.0 after the winter break when Ariyib and Hastie started doing their 433 thing. That'll explain the dip then. 17/18 your CB group all score pretty well. Dunne lowest at 4.9, then Hartley, then Kipre, then Aldred. Completely dip in 18/19. Hartley on 1.7 at the bottom, then Aldred, then Dunne the best despite scoring worse than the season before. This isn't a flawless system fwiw, just a bit of fun. Worry I'm presenting this as some form of fact based statistical analysis that I think isn't just a load of contextless tosh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said: I know he had a relatively product evening against Glentoran with a goal and being involved in the build up to another two, but domestically, other than the goal Lewis put on a plate, I can’t actually remember him doing anything of note domestically this season. Like, I’m genuinely struggling to think of him playing a good pass, beating his man, even getting into a good position. I know I’ve made my #numberpolis feelings clear in the past, but the number 99 thing does really annoy me as well. If you’ve thought you’d get a better move to the point that your number has been given away by the time you sign your deal, just take the next number in the 20s or 30s and get on with it. I did like Long last season, but I’d more than happily see the back of him when the window opens. He put a great pass along the six yard line against St Mirren. It had xGs all over it but it was skied. (I don’t know how xG works or is it Xg?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: Not especially relevant, but our CF generally has the lowest touches of any player aswell. We've had games where May has played something daft like 6 passes in 80 minutes, so its maybe a league wide phenomenon rather than something to do with Long? FWIW, while I'm here, I've started the boring process of CB ratings now. Gallagher last season obviously your best (so far), from 17/18_20/21, Tam Aldred 17/18 runs him close though... Aldred then absolutely plummets in 18/19 (was he with you all season or just half? Might have made a mistake if he left early). Ricki Lamie 18/19 sits at the second worst CB in the entire system... Second worst, your formula is broken mate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, ropy said: Second worst, your formula is broken mate Wallace Duffy is the worst tbf, I doubt we'll ever see someone struggle as much as him again at this level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18May1991 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 6 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: Wallace Duffy is the worst tbf, I doubt we'll ever see someone struggle as much as him again at this level. When do we play you next? You’re in for a treat.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 11 hours ago, craigkillie said: Feels a bit weird to do this when you literally take a team photo on the pitch before every single game. The whole situation around how clubs keep players apart but then all gather in the 6 yard box at corners etc is weird. We'll keep the 3 points though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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