Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[stu92]

Possibly a controversial opinion on this forum but it’s possible to be wasteful up front, shambolic at the back and be lacking in leaders across the park, without being a shower of useless spineless c***s.

Fully agree with what has been said umpteen times before about someone in the mould of Hartley next to Lamie/Sol. That would to an extent eradicate a lot of the f**k ups we gift opposition each week and make us harder to beat. I think it’s unfair to start throwing terms like spineless shitebags about though. A quarter of our points this season (albeit only 5) have been gained from losing positions. We were close to snatching points from the jaws of defeat against Aberdeen (last minute lack of VAR), Hearts (last minute penalty) and Hibs (Porteous wipeout). We’ve rallied and scored late on to limit both OF sides to one goal victories. The only times we’ve dropped points from winning positions this season have been yesterday through an amateurish lapse in concentration, and against Killie where - ignoring we were 2 up against ten men - conceded to a 30 yard screamer in the top bin. If we had a team of shitebags none of the above would’ve happened.

Plenty of room for improvement, but I’m still confident Hammy will get a tune out of this squad with a few key additions. I thought both of the new guys looked decent enough yesterday as far as debuts in storm conditions go, and was pleased with young Max’s performance on the whole. I’d be surprised if Hammell didn’t know the areas most needing improvement, much easier to identify that than to sign the players in January I imagine. 

[eliphas]

That is where I am @stu92. I do think when you dig into most of our issues it's a bit more nuanced than initially made out. 

The goal yesterday is a decent example. At the game I was full on giving Sexy Sol pelters for missing it. But watching it this morning, Lamie wanders out under the ball and misses it completely (like miles off), and even then Lamie has had to come out/decided to come out into a position where probably Maguire or McGinn should be.

The hard thing is that it's a bit of everything and it's equally chronic and not far away.  It's tactics, it's players available, it's players making bad choices etc. Flip side we do create a lot of good chances (actual ones and not the ones Robinson used to kid on we made), we actually don't get pumped that often (see goal difference which might end up saving us) and we scored some decent goals. 

I don't think moving Hammell on will make any difference personally. I think it will create more issues. 

I just hope we can improve the % enough across the areas above to be nice and safe and not the alternative which is die by a thousand cuts 

Edited January 15, 2023 by eliphas

[joewarkfanclub]

Listened to the game on Sportsound yesterday and was amazed to hear that we have scored more goals than the teams above us and conceded fewer than most of them.

Our "in game management" and individual errors is our biggest problem. Whilst we clearly arent a great team, we are doing enough right to be higher up the league than we are showing currently. But the crazy self inflicted goals are killing us.

Im still behind Stevie Hammell, but he either needs to change something at the back to account for the fact that one of these errors is likely to happen every week. 

Whether that is going to a back 3 or changing one of our current pairing out for Blaney, Im not sure.

But we cant be persevering with Sol and Lamie. Its madness.

Arbroath next week is the perfect opportunity to put Blaney in. If he cant handle that level, we shouldnt have signed him.

[Richie]

It was the usual succession of errors for the equaliser yesterday.

Im always sceptical of changing things too much if you're in control of the game.

We went 1-0 up and were starting to dominate (or at least look dangerous) again, then made a few subs which gave me the fear. Possibly they were enforced, who knows.

Then Van Veen, after initially decent hold up play, refused to pop the ball inside - eventually conceding throw.

Lammie looks to engage, but doesnt and is passive at the header, when he should have forcibly challenged and dealt with it.

Solholm ball-watching and/or doesn't notice the run in behind.

Our game management is horriffic.

We seem to get more open and frantic with a lead, rather than slowing down and putting our foot on the ball.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Richie

[Richie]

43 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Listened to the game on Sportsound yesterday and was amazed to hear that we have scored more goals than the teams above us and conceded fewer than most of them.

Our "in game management" and individual errors is our biggest problem. Whilst we clearly arent a great team, we are doing enough right to be higher up the league than we are showing currently. But the crazy self inflicted goals are killing us.

This is what I'm clinging on to.

We're outscoring and also conceding less than other teams.

We can hopefully just do things in the right order in marginal games.

[ropy]

Maybe it wasn’t all Shields fault after all.

[Well Well]

7 minutes ago, ropy said:

Maybe it wasn’t all Shields fault after all.

you went too far 

[Kapowzer]

3 hours ago, eliphas said:

...and we would all have moaned about the shite and boring tactics of Alexander shutting up shop with 20+ mins to go.

I get what you are saying but the answer is somewhere in the middle. Someone called for that yesterday near me and I 100% didn't want us to shut up shop at that point as I reckoned a daft mistake while sitting in would mean we would be more likely to concede. I actually thought we looked likely to go on and score again more than anything. 

The change to 4-2-3-1 works for me, which we've seen in a few games. But it's really only marginally.

I'm like a broken record but I genuinely don't think the 2 central defenders we have can play in a 2 together. Confidence is totally shot and there is no understanding between them.

 

 

I can’t agree with you when you say our centre half pairing doesn’t work and confidence shot and not advocate and extra body there for 20 mins to make up for that deficiency with numbers in the same post. A cushion of McGinn and Goss is a plaster not emergency surgery.

There was more to Alexanderball than that. Anyway by and large this team don’t want me to gouge my eyes out just reach for Valium. When you fail to protect a lead twice against teams below you, I’d take 20 minutes of shoring up. I also feel confident under Hammy our forwards would be encouraged to counter them on the break unlike with GA.

Just need points in the bag and break the cycle of pish.

[David1979]

16 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

All stems from the absolute shitshow that Alexander left behind. It's mind-boggling how much he managed to f**k the entire place in a very short period of time. His stats and league placings look good, but the reality is that he was a charlatan, the board bought into his 'vision', and its done damage that will take years to fix.

Now our stats and league placings look terrible, but at least we don't have a "charlatan" in charge. A shame that it's the stats and league placing that will determine where we play our football next season.

[RandomGuy.]

9 hours ago, 18May1991 said:

If that’s the case then why the f**k did he sign a striker and winger first?
Of course we needed reinforcements up front, but (potentially) at the expense of defensive midfielder/centre backs?Unforgivable.

I’ve said a few times, I really hope Hammell succeeds but, with each passing week of shit show defensive performances, I have increasing doubts he will. 

How many proven top flight standard CBs do you think are available in the first week of the January window?

Mikey Devlin the obvious one, but with his injury issues do you dive into that and risk it or wait and see if better appears later in the window?

We had to wait until the final week to resolve our CM issue last season (by getting Hallberg after chasing him all month) so theres every chance youve a similar wait.

Edited January 15, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[well fan for life]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Mikey Devlin the obvious one, but with his injury issues do you dive into that and risk it or wait and see if better appears later in the window?

 

Personally I think we should sign him immediately. We never have any issues with that sort of signing. 

[capt_oats]

21 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

How many proven top flight standard CBs do you think are available in the first week of the January window?

Mikey Devlin the obvious one, but with his injury issues do you dive into that and risk it or wait and see if better appears later in the window?

We had to wait until the final week to resolve our CM issue last season (by getting Hallberg after chasing him all month) so theres every chance youve a similar wait.

Aye.

There's a lot of stamping of feet about this. It's pretty reductive to just assume that we'll be able to get players in, in order of priority, in January.

Don't get me wrong, if we don't address the issue this month then it's a massive problem but we're limited in how much control we have as to timing. I'd guess there's a chance we're looking at loans and as Burrows pointed out to his reply guys last week we're at the mercy of the parent club as to when they're willing to release their player.

On top of that I'd guess that whatever happens with Penney will have a bearing on who we're bringing in as well. SOD's situation probably has a knock on too.

Either way folk absolutely furious that we've signed 2 forwards whose heads would have completely detached if Connor Shields had started yesterday is some laugh. Motherwell Twitter is an absolute shitshow just now tbqh.

Edited January 15, 2023 by capt_oats

[capt_oats]

12 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Personally I think we should sign him immediately. We never have any issues with that sort of signing. 

Absolutely. I can't see anything going wrong with that one. Sign him up.

[18May1991]

21 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

How many proven top flight standard CBs do you think are available in the first week of the January window?

Mikey Devlin the obvious one, but with his injury issues do you dive into that and risk it or wait and see if better appears later in the window?

We had to wait until the final week to resolve our CM issue last season (by getting Hallberg after chasing him all month) so theres every chance youve a similar wait.

I get that it doesn’t all fall into place as we would all like. I also get that there won’t be many ‘proven top flight standard CBs’ just hanging around waiting for their dream move to Fir Park. However….

(1) my point was that if funds are as limited as Hammell suggests then a winger and striker should not have been the priority; and

(2) Im not sure why we need ‘proven top flight standard’ much as that would be nice. Pretty much any professional footballer centre half (in the big b*****d category) would be an upgrade on the half-wits we currently have. 

[rowsdower]

One of these injured guys is going to work out eventually, screw it, let's do it.

 

[18May1991]

15 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Aye.

There's a lot of stamping of feet about this. It's pretty reductive to just assume that we'll be able to get players in, in order of priority, in January.

Don't get me wrong, if we don't address the issue in January then it's a massive problem but we're limited in how much control we have as to timing. I'd guess there's a chance we're looking at loans and as Burrows pointed out to his reply guys last week we're at the mercy of the parent club as to when they're willing to release their player.

On top of that I'd guess that whatever happens with Penney will have a bearing on who we're bringing in as well. SOD's situation probably has a knock on as well.

Either way folk absolutely furious that we've signed 2 forwards whose heads would have completely detached if Connor Shields had started yesterday is some laugh. Motherwell Twitter is an absolute shitshow just now tbqh.

 

To clarify, I’m not one of those that are stamping their feet or furious about the signings. I’m happy we’ve got anyone in as reinforcements are clearly desperately needed. As I’ve said though, they’re not the priority IMO. If the budget is very tight then defensive midfielder/centre half(s) should absolutely have been the priority. 
We’ve never got close to replacing Campbell (difficult as that might be) and have been crying out for a replacement for Lamie for what feels like years. 

[ropy]

We have three defensive options that we didn’t have before January albeit a lack of experience amongst them.  Presumably the idea of bringing in forward players is an attempt to outscore our defenders.

Edited January 15, 2023 by ropy

[rowsdower]

I don't agree with the priorities, and either way, our first January signing was a defender.

We lost Aaron's and moult, and efford is broken, so we had to fill those spots up so that we had actual attacking options. Our biggest problem this season has not been putting teams away, and not having enough of a threat in the latter stages of games. Teams know they can see out 60 mins then throw everything at us because we have nothing in reply. 

As bad as Sol and Lamie are, and they are bad, our attacking play is such that we're relying on absolute perfection from our defence in order to win games. No defender we sign this month is going to give us that.

 

[capt_oats]

17 minutes ago, 18May1991 said:

To clarify, I’m not one of those that are stamping their feet or furious about the signings. I’m happy we’ve got anyone in as reinforcements are clearly desperately needed. As I’ve said though, they’re not the priority IMO. If the budget is very tight then defensive midfielder/centre half(s) should absolutely have been the priority. 
We’ve never got close to replacing Campbell (difficult as that might be) and have been crying out for a replacement for Lamie for what feels like years. 

Aye, apologies. I'm, not suggesting that you were stamping your feet - there's been a lot of it around though.

I understand your point about the budget but I kind of disagree that a winger and striker shouldn't have been a priority.

For me we've been asking KVV to play week in, week out whether he's fit or not because we've had absolutely no one else to play the #9.

Same with Connor Shields he's been getting chucked out there simply because we had no one else to fill the jersey to the point that his confidence is absolutely fucking shot.

Those positions (IMO) were every bit as important to fill as CB and MF.

The defence feels like it's a situation where we actually have numbers.

Like, if you look at the first team squad of those who are fit, we have O'Donnell, Lamie, Johansen, McGinn, Blaney, Johnston and Penney to pick from. From that POV I'd imagine that if we wanted to bring anyone in for that area we'd need to see a couple move out anyway - it's unlikely that we'd be running with 10+ first team defenders on our books.

It's definitely frustrating when you see the sort of goals we've been conceding it's an area where we probably have to manage the numbers first.

For avoidance of doubt we absolutely need to sort the defence out - absolutely zero argument from me on that - but it probably needs a bit of finessing.

Edited January 15, 2023 by capt_oats

[18May1991]

Fair play. Not sure Lamie or Johansen just need finessing though…..they’re fucking terrible, the pair of them. 

Can we not just unearth another Brian Martin? That would be nice.